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Boeing 787 (partie 2)

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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 5 Sep 2011 - 14:33

Rebonjour,

En creusant un peu le certficat de type :

Je note :
a) La soute du 787-8 est certifiée à 25.5+19.1+2.7 t = 47.3 t. Celle d'un A330-200 n'est certifiée que pour 18.9 + 15.2 + 3.5 = 37.6 t. Sacrée différence. Le 787 peut donc prendre du fret à haute densité massique en soute et faire quasiment le plein de charge utile avec la soute. Et il prend 16+12 = 28 LD3... l'A330-200 en 26 ou 27 (option)

b) Le version certifiée est à 219.5 t de MTOW la version finale sera à 227.9 t... en corollaire le MZFW certifié actuel passera de 156.5t à 161 t (+4.5t) a voir si ça va avoir un impact sur la charge utile... à voir aussi quel impact sur le poids à vide inconnu à l'heure actuelle...

A suivre

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 5 Sep 2011 - 15:06


Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 13 Sep 2011 - 17:50

Bonjour à tous :

QQ détails sur le 787_10 et des nouvelles du -9
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/09/13/361971/boeing-studies-service-entry-timing-for-planned-new.html


The 787-10 variant, seen as a "relatively small statement of work", said Piasecki, would be a stretch of the 250- to 290-seat 787-9, and would offer a performance of approximately 320 passengers, twin 74,000lb (329kN) engines, with a range of 6,800nm (12,600km), slightly lower than its June estimate of 6,900nm.
Ahead of the 787-10's potential launch, Boeing plans to introduce the 787-9 at the end of 2013, which is expected to undergo its critical programme review (CPR) later in September "building off the load and flight test data on the 787-8", said Piasecki.

787-10 : 320 PAX, 6800 Nm et des trent de 74000 lb
Ce qui était déjà sur la table : 251 t de MTOW, et si on table sur 130T d'OEW, ça fait 110 000 l environ pour cette distance de vol.

Pour mémoire l'A330-300 fait 5850 Nm avec 295 PAX et 98 000 l ... (et ne décolle pas à MTOW)


787-9 : importante revue de projet fin de ce mois et entrée en service tjs prévue fin 2013

A suivre

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Dim 25 Sep 2011 - 22:50

Bonsoir à tous

Le premier 787 a bien été livré....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/09/25/362515/boeing-formally-delivers-first-787-to-ana.html


All Nippon Airways, launch customer for the Boeing 787, has taken contractual delivery of its first of 55 aircraft three and a half years late.
Boeing completed the transaction early on 25 September in Everett, Washington, officially giving ANA ownership of the aircraft maker's majority composite flagship product, said Scott Fancher, 787 programme vice president and general manager.
Fancher announced the historic step while briefing reporters shortly after 09:00, local time.

©Boeing

Takeo Kukuchi, general manager of ANA's Seattle office, shakes hands with Paul Baldwin, a Boeing contracting officer, after signing the delivery forms for the first 787.
"Just about an hour ago we did sign the contract with ANA," Fancher said. "The title has been transferred of the first vehicle to ANA, so we're real excited about that."
ANA became launch customer on 26 April 2004, launching the then-dubbed 7E7, in a deal for 50 aircraft, the first of which was due for delivery in May 2008.
After years of delays due to supply chain issues and design changes, Boeing's delivery concludes the long wait by its launch customer, which was deeply involved in the design of the aircraft.

ANA is also Boeing's first non-US launch customer for a new widebody aircraft in its history, underscoring the international nature of the programme's partner base, 35% of which is built by Japanese supplier Mitsubishi, Kawasaki and Fuji Heavy Industries.
The first 787, Airplane Eight registered JA801A, will arrive in Japan at 09:00 Tokyo local time on 28 September.


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Dim 25 Sep 2011 - 22:52

Et pour compléter

Certification rapide attendue pour le pack B
Livraison fin d'année

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2011/09/with-second-ana-787-rolls-royc.html



EVERETT -- With Saturday's first flight of Airplane 24, ZA103, registered JA802A, Rolls-Royce marked an important milestone, the first flight of the Package B Trent 1000 engine on a production aircraft, confirms program vice president and general manager Scott Fancher.
-
UPDATE: Boeing and Rolls-Royce clarified earlier inaccurate remarks that said the Package B engines had flown on Airplane 24. That is, in fact, not the case and it looks like the Package B engines won't deliver until November or December ahead of the January start for ANA's long-haul international service to Frankfurt.

Certification of the Package B engine, expected soon, incorporates a revised six-stage low pressure turbine (LPT) design, high-aspect-ratio blades, relocation of the intermediate-pressure (IP) compressor bleed offtake ports and a fan outlet guide vanes with improved aerodynamics. The updated engine will bring specific fuel consumption to within 1% of the original specification.

ANA and Boeing declined to comment on the delivery timing of the second 787 to ANA, though several program sources point a handover in the second half of October.

At June's Paris Air Show, Rolls-Royce expected ANA's fifth 787 to be powered by the Package B engine and would inaugurate international long-haul service, though ANA senior vice president Satoru Fujiki said the second aircraft will delivered in its short to medium-haul configuration.


Dernière édition par Admin le Mar 27 Sep 2011 - 9:25, édité 1 fois (Raison : CORRECTION)


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 26 Sep 2011 - 22:30

Bonsoir,

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/commercial_aviation/ThingsWithWings/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=7a78f54e-b3dd-4fa6-ae6e-dff2ffd7bdbb&plckPostId=Blog%3a7a78f54e-b3dd-4fa6-ae6e-dff2ffd7bdbbPost%3a183f5500-2a2c-4664-820f-a64dfeffeb88&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest



Boeing has completed the critical design review for the stretched 787-9, and according to sources, seems to be ‘happy’ that it is tracking its ambitious performance targets – both in terms of payload/range and critical aircraft structural weight.
The clock is ticking on the 787-9 as first deliveries are set to begin in only 27 months, and Boeing knows it cannot afford a repeat of the delays experienced on the 787-8. The key challenge for the 787-9 is to deliver approximately a 20% increase in passenger load (around 40 more seats), and additional range without a change in wingspan. Several weight-related design changes are being invoked with the shift to the -9, many as a result of lessons-learned on the -8, including a revised side-of-body structural join. Overall the -9, which was defined last summer, will be 20 ft longer than the -8 with a 206 ft fuselage. It will carry up to 290 passengers in standard configuration and have a range of up to 8,500 naut mile.
Further details of the 787-9 timetable and development may be revealed at briefings planned for later today. So watch this space.


Critical review design effectuée à 27 mois de la première livraison.
Tjs 290 PAX à 8500Nm, à suivre

Et

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news/awx/2011/09/26/awx_09_26_2011_p0-374385.xml&headline=787-9%20Clears%20Critical%20Design%20Review%20Milestone



To accommodate the maximum take-off weight of between 545,000 lb and 553,000 lb, around 50,000 lb more than the -8, the main landing gear truck is enlarged, its beam widened and the overall gauge increased. As a result the landing gear required additional stowage space, forcing Boeing to raise the height of the pressure deck to avoid any changes to the outer mold line. Overall, however, Jenks describes the structural changes as minor.

Rolls-Royce is gearing up to make the first run of a Trent 1000 with elements of the ‘Package C’ engine configuration in development for the 787-9. An engine containing discrete features of the ‘C’ upgrade is due to make its first run in Derby, England in October. Rated at around 74,000 lb thrust, the first full-up Package C engine will run in early 2012. The improved engine will incorporate advanced tip clearance control systems in the high, intermediate and low pressure turbines as well a range of changes to the secondary air system.

The first Package B engine is close to certification on the 787-8, having flown on test aircraft ZA004 since May this year. Aircraft type certification with Package B is expected around the start of November. The upgrade is designed to bring performance to within 1% of Boeing’s original specification and will be rated at 70,000 lb for delivery of the first long-haul 787-8 version for ANA - currently set for the late November-early December timeframe.

The package includes revisions to the twist of the fan blades and outlet guide vanes which were prompted when Boeing’s thrust requirement increased. The higher thrust resulted in a slightly smaller nozzle exit area which drove changes to the fan to match the higher pressure ratio. Package B also includes changes to aerodynamics in the six-stage low pressure turbine, while improved cooling flow was developed for the intermediate pressure turbine and changes made to the secondary air system to take off sealing and cooling air at a lower pressure stage.

Y a quand même l'air d'avoir pas mal de boulot, rien que pour le train... étonnant pour une version prévue à l'origine.
Qu'est ce que le pressure deck précisement ?


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Ven 30 Sep 2011 - 9:58

Bonjour à tous

tu mieux dans la prod
Et c'est tant mieux!


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2016319928_boeing26.html


After the first 787 Dreamliner was delivered Sunday in Everett, a tour of the 787 final-assembly line showed strong evidence that Boeing has made genuine progress in building the jets.

And at a briefing for the international media here for the milestone, the head of the program insisted that the gigantic investment Boeing has made on the new jet will pay off in the future.

On the 787 assembly line, the four jets lined up in production were strikingly more complete than jets seen on a June visit.

On that earlier visit, because of problems with parts coming in from suppliers in Europe and Australia, the horizontal tails on some 787s were not finished, and passenger doors as well as most of the wing trailing edges were missing.

Sunday, tails and doors were installed on all the planes. The one nearest the door was having its engines hung, a job that until now was mostly deferred until after the planes rolled out onto the flight line.

And out on Paine Field, there was more evidence of progress: Boeing is dismantling the large tentlike shelter it had constructed for modifying the faulty wing-body joins on its early 787s.

That work is now done, and the fix to the wing-body join on subsequent planes is being done on the mid-fuselage assembly line in Charleston, S.C.

Certainly, there are still issues. The planes lined up behind the one being fitted with engines were still missing one section of the trailing edge, which is supposed to be installed earlier.

"It's not all perfect yet," said Larry Coughlin, director of 787 final assembly. "It's getting better."

It may be that Boeing cleaned up the factory especially well and cleared away any temporary fixtures for the media visit.

But even if the production line isn't quite as shiny as it appeared, progress is undeniable.

The way the assembly line looks supports an assertion by a senior Boeing engineer — who asked not to be identified because he's not authorized to talk to the media — that production stability is finally within sight.

"We're actually finishing planes in final assembly now," he said last week. "We'll get to a stable production rate this winter."

Journalists on Sunday also got to tour the second 787 that will be delivered, Dreamliner No. 24.

This jet is the first one to be delivered that will benefit from some structural changes introduced on production plane No. 20 to save weight.

The airplane looks almost ready to go. You can already watch a movie on the seat-back video screens. That plane is scheduled for delivery to Japan's All Nippon Airways (ANA) on Oct. 14.

The first Dreamliner to be delivered, No. 8, was privately handed over to ANA early Sunday morning.

Afterward, Scott Fancher, 787 vice president, was asked by a journalist whether Boeing could get a return on its investment in the 787 as reported Sunday in The Seattle Times: more than $32 billion so far on developing the 787 and building the first 40-some planes.

Fancher said the investment was the "right business choice" that will prove worthwhile as the jet's innovative technologies become "the backbone" of future airplane development "for the next 30 years."

"We like the investment we made in the 787," he said. "We like the potential going forward."

He didn't comment on the $32 billion figure.

Fancher said Boeing has learned much from its challenges with the Dreamliner that it can apply to future jet projects.

It's not just the know-how to design and build an airplane out of carbon fiber-reinforced plastic, he said, but also how to integrate sophisticated new airplane systems such as the 787's extensive use of electric power in place of hydraulics, and its "fly-by-wire" electronic flight controls.

"These technologies will serve us well for a generation," Fancher said.

A celebration by employees of the first delivery milestone is scheduled Monday morning, headlined by Boeing CEO Jim McNerney and ANA Chief Executive Shinichiro Ito.

In advance, Boeing briefed about 150 media representatives from the U.S., Japan, China, Australia and various European nations.

Takatomi Shindo, an anchor for a business-news show on TV Tokyo, said his audience is particularly interested in the Dreamliner as a validation of Japan's manufacturing prowess.

Japanese companies designed and build about 35 percent of the structure of the Dreamliner, including the wings.

Although many of those manufacturers are currently struggling in a weakened economy, Shindo said, "We like to see that Japanese companies can show the world that they can still contribute."

Satoru Fujiki, ANA senior vice president, said the airline will take four Dreamliners this year and eight more by the end of March. He said ANA will have all 50 of the 787s it has on order by 2017.


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 4 Oct 2011 - 12:25

Et maitenant ?
Ben faut les produire le 787...

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/awst/2011/10/03/AW_10_03_2011_p24-375920.xml&headline=Just%20820%20More%20Boeing%20787s%20To%20Go&channel=comm

long article à lire en VO

qq extraits


Boeing Chairman and CEO James McNerney says the 787 will be cash-positive before 2020, a reference to cash flow on a unit basis and not to the program’s overall profitability
Cash positive en 2020 ? donc la rentabilité du programme sera après 2020 ?


Beyond the 3.5-per-month assembly rate that Albaugh forecasts for early next year, Rubel forecasts a monthly pace of five by the end of 2012. But that is just half of what Boeing wants by the end of 2013. “I don’t think there’s a chance whatsoever of getting to that rate,” says Teal Group analyst Richard Aboulafia.

He acknowledges that 787 production “is on the mend,” but says the company still must incorporate design improvements in Block 1 aircraft (through Line No. 21) as it matures an “entirely new supply chain and entirely new technologies.” Ten per month will be a record assembly rate for widebody jets, he notes.

On top of that, Aboulafia takes a wait-and-see approach to what adjustments Boeing might need to make with the airplane in service. “You don’t know how well it will perform until it does,” he declares.

Rythme de prod : 3.5 avions par mois début 2012, 5 / mois fin 2012 et le double fin 2013 ? est-ce réaliste ?

Bonne lecture


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 4 Oct 2011 - 13:01

Bon et un autre lien

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5270740/#last

http://www.aspireaviation.com/blog/



Weight:
First prototype - ZA001: 7.8 tonnes (21,500 lbs.) overweight
LN7 - LN19: 6.1 tonnes (13,500 lbs.) overweight
LN-20: 4 tonnes (8,800 lbs.) overweight
LN-90: meets original weight targets

Engines:
R-R Trent Package A: 2% - 4% miss on SFC
R-R Trent Package B: 1% miss on SFC

GEnx-1B: 2% to 3% miss on SFC
PIP1: Reduces fuel burn by 1.4%
PIP2: Reduces fuel burn by 1.5%
2013 spec GEnx-1B: hits original SFC target (=+)

Aerodynamics of B-787: Slightly better than expected

Conclusion on B-787-8: Should finally hit the original factory specs in 2013

B-787-9: Weight is ahead of curve
B-787-10X: Probably EIS in 2016

Je ne sais pas ce que ça vaut
Si ce n'est qu'à partir du 90ème avion livré en 2013 boeing va être aux specs d'un avion prévu pour entrer en service en 2008 ... 5 ans d'amélioration sur les différents composants des l'avions ont été intégrés... On peut penser que dans l'intervalle un avion "existant" aurait probablement progressé lui également
Peut-on imaginer que finalement la delta entre le 787 et les 767 / A330 en 2013 sera finalement moins grand que prévu ?


Bonne journée


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mer 5 Oct 2011 - 14:39

Bonjour à tous,

qq compléments
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2011/10/excess-weight-keeps-anas-early.html

Pour mémoire, la dernière info publique de Boeing sur l'OEW du 787-8 date de septembre 2007 et elle est à 114.5 t
Avec les stats suivantes :
MWE (09/2007)= 098.9 t (déduit de l'article d'Airbus sur "787 Lessons Learnt", config ADS K
OEW (09/2007)= 114.5 t
CU (09/2007)= 045.4 t (d'après la doc Boeing, car par le calcul on obtient : 42 seulement !)
MZFW(09/2007)= 156.5 t
MTOW(09/2007)= 219.5 t

L'écart entre MWE et OEW est important (15.6t), s'il est juste il me peut être expliqué que par le poids croissant des équipements de cabines (par comparaison pour la config standard d'un A330-200 cet écart n'est que de 8.8t, et de 14.7 pour une config type CSA 266PAX)

Depuis, selon le papier d'Airbus, le MWE doit passer à 101.2t pour 227.9t de MTOW et 161.0 t de MZFW c'est pour le LN20 et au delà
Donc :

MWE (08/2008)= 101.2 t (déduit de l'article d'Airbus sur "787 Lessons Learnt", config POST EIS)
OEW (08/2008)= 116.8 t (équipement intérieur considéré à poids constant, capa PAX inchangée)
CU (08/2008)= 044.2 t (MZFW-OEW)
MZFW(08/2008)= 161.0 t
MTOW(08/2008)= 227.9 t

Reste une donnée de mai 2011 : "Minimum Flight and Zero Fuel Weight" = 104.1 t, à quoi ça correspond

Airbus avait identifié le surpoids du LN1 à 21000lbs en 2008 (avant les divers renforts nécessaires) par rapport à la config ADS F "firm config" ce qui place le MWE à 105.1 t. A noter que cette config ADS F est à 215.9 t de MTOW "seulement"

LN20 à 227.9 t : MWE serait à 99.5 t si la référence reste ADS F, soit sous le poids estimé par airbus en août 2008. Or pour moi, les poids du tableau sont à priori les poids "cible de boeing" pour garantir les perfos.

Conclusion pour moi, rien n'est clair et les histoires de surpoids sont nécessairement par rapport à des références "mouvantes".
Pour moi, le surpoids des premières cellules "227.9t" (LN20) doit probablement se prendre par rapport à la config "Post EIS", soit MWE , soit 105.2 t
Et pour moi aussi LN7 à 19 sont plus lourdes (106.1t) malgre le MTOW inférieur

On est très proche des poids MWE de l'A330-200 un peu plus gros

Comprenne qui pourra !





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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Ven 7 Oct 2011 - 9:06

Bonjour à tous

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-completes-787-9-critical-programme-review-363005/

Qq détail sur cet avion qui semble quand même assez différent du 787-8 dans son détail :

Sur les ailes : les raidisseurs passent partiellement au carbone

As part of its upgraded design - which includes significant structural changes in some areas of the aircraft - Boeing will transition the larger -9 to a wing featuring more composite, with carbonfibre-reinforced plastic (CFRP) in-spar ribs supplied by Korean Aerospace Industries.

Mark Jenks, 787 vice-president of engineering, said the first four inboard ribs of the 787-9's wing will be made from composite, rather than the current aluminium design.

- Travail sur le stabilisateur horizontal arrière


Jenks said Boeing has not yet made a decision on whether or not the 787-9's new horizontal stabiliser architecture - which includes an integral multi-spar box design - will be incorporated back into the -8.

The new empennage also includes a centreline-spliced horizontal stabiliser, similar to the design of the 777, rather than the two co-cured boxes joined with a central junction base design, as on the 787-8.

Tout ça n'est pas certain de se retrouver injecter dans le 787-8...

Que comprendre pour le poids final ? "Ahead of the curve" ? plus léger que prévu ?

A suivre


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 10 Oct 2011 - 14:33

Bonjour à tous

En allant ici

http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/fr/f/asw_common/inflight/seatmap/b787_8/

Je note :

En config 158 PAX
Avec un MTOW de 227.9 t
Une distance franchissable de 7350 Nm environ

Ca doit être les distances franchissables réelles prises en compte par ANA car les 777-300Er (247PAX) et -200ER(223PAX° de la cie sont affichés respectivement à 7500 et 7250 Nm pour 7725 et 7930 NM en config type Boeing.

Donc les 7350Nm sont à mon avis la distance franchissables avec 158PAX et du fret (quelle quantité ?)pour un LN20 et suivant
Si on fait les calculs à rebours pour les 777

Sous l'hypothèse que l'OEW "ANA" est égal à celui de "Boeing"
777-300ER : charge utile totale 41 t environ (donc 16 t de fret environ)
777-200ER : charge utile totale 39 t environ (donc 17 t de fret environ)

Donc à 7350 NM et 227.9t il doit probablement y avoir en plus des 158PAX plus de 10 t de fret, soit plus de 25 t...

Pour mémoire tjs officiellement sur le site Boeing :
Pour 227.9t
210 à 250 PAX à 8200 à 7650 Nm

Boeing dit donc 25 t à 7650 Nm
ANA dit plus de 25 t à 7350 Nm

Pas si loin des specs au final (au pire 4% !)



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art_way
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par art_way le Mer 12 Oct 2011 - 8:24




SINGAPOUR, 12 octobre (Reuters) - Le directeur général d'Air New Zealand AIR.NZ a annoncé mercredi que de nouveaux retards étaient possibles dans la livraison des 787 Dreamliner commandés à Boeing BA.N , ajoutant que la compagnie est en négociations en vue de compensations.
Air New Zealand doit recevoir ses huit premiers Dreamliner d'ici à la fin de 2013, avec un retard de trois ans.
"Nous ne serions pas surpris de constater de nouveaux retards, mais nous
n'en avons pas encore été informés formellement", a déclaré Rob Fyfe à
Reuters.

http://www.boursorama.com/actualites/air-new-zealand-n-exclut-pas-de-nouveaux-retards-sur-dreamliner-1e862bf48079c983c8420252658cafce


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Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Jeu 13 Oct 2011 - 11:26

Bonjour !

Air India ... et ses 787, c'est toujoursaussi ncertain, pas nouveau , mais ...
En Fr dans le Figaro !
http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-eco/2011/10/05/97002-20111005FILWWW00518-l-inde-reexamine-l-achat-de-27-b787.php

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Dim 16 Oct 2011 - 14:43

Bonjour !

Les poids à vide des 787 OEW (ou autres) !
Un secret bien gardé...et trés variable suivant les équipements, et les missions !
Voir le débat de Airliners aussi paumés que nous pour avoir une vraie idée du vrai poidsà vide !
Et comma attendu ça va varier beaucoup dans la série!

Pour rire un peu !
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/305753/

JPRS

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Dim 16 Oct 2011 - 14:44

Beochien a écrit:Bonjour !

Air India ... et ses 787, c'est toujours aussi incertain, pas nouveau , mais ...
En Fr dans le Figaro !
http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-eco/2011/10/05/97002-20111005FILWWW00518-l-inde-reexamine-l-achat-de-27-b787.php

Fausse manip !
Orth. corrigée, c'est tout !

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 17 Oct 2011 - 9:58



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Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 17 Oct 2011 - 15:08



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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 17 Oct 2011 - 15:47

Bonjour à tous

Une belle synthèse du chemin parcouru par les différents moteurs
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/powering-the-dream-atypical-paths-to-boeing-787-eis-362160/
Et un chiffre ... dégradation de la température de sortie turbine +6 à +8 °C / 1000 cycles contre +10° actuellement pour le GE90

Si on regarde la fiche EASA :Limite maxi décollage 1030°C ... à savoir quelle est la température affichée au décollage à pleine poussée à la sortie de l'usine...



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Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Lun 17 Oct 2011 - 16:59

Merci Poncho !
Ils confirment bien RR que suite à la cata du T900 !
Ily a eu qq réformes du Hardware, Sur la version B du T1000 !
Et ça m'étonnerait que ce soit uniquement les tuyaux d'huile !
Mais pas certain que ce soient les roulements non plus .. ce serait plus long à mon avis !
Intéressants les EGT, RR se dit meilleur, fort possible, et comme d'hab, ils chauffent un peu moins, mais pas de chiffres ! Dommage !

JPRS

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 18 Oct 2011 - 11:51

Bonjour
Pour faire écho à l'annulation de China Eastern

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/18/us-boeing-dreamliner-idUSTRE79H0SV20111018


A day after news of China Eastern's (600115.SS) (0670.HK) cancellations, a Boeing executive said some orders would fall through as it adjusted delivery dates and that the pace of production of the fuel-efficient aircraft would pick up.

"Frankly as we look forward, we expect to see the Dreamliner order base increase, we expect to see more orders, we expect to see more cancellations, especially as we go through mitigation with our customers," Boeing marketing vice president Randy Tinseth told a briefing in Seoul.

China Eastern said in a filing to the Hong Kong stock exchange it would instead spend $3.3 billion to buy 45 new Boeing 737 aircraft, more of a regional jet than the Dreamliner, and also buy 15 Airbus EADS (EAD.PA) A330s worth $2.5 billion.

Analysts said other Chinese airlines might also now decide to cancel Dreamliners as they re-assess the long-haul market.

China Eastern's purchase of Airbus (EAD.PA) A330s, a competitor to the Dreamliner, could add even more pressure on Boeing to ramp up production of the 787s, now three years behind original schedule. Each plane has a list price of $185 million.

"There is a good chance that other Chinese airlines will also cancel their 787 orders because most of the time they will act together," said Kelvin Lau, an analyst at Daiwa Securities.

"This indicates that China Eastern is taking a bearish view on long-haul and believes the recovery in the United States and Europe won't come soon, so they don't want to invest so much on big planes for long-haul."

RISK TO 787 BACKLOG

Alex Hamilton, managing director of EarlyBirdCapital, also suspected Boeing's arch-rival, Airbus (EAD.PA), was using the Dreamliner delays to push keenly priced sales of its own jets.

"All this highlights the risk to the 787 backlog, especially if they can't get to 10 per month," Hamilton said, referring to Boeing's 787 production target.

Boeing's Tinseth told reporters the company was producing two 787s a month, and would "slowly but consistently increase the rate until the end of 2013 we'll be building 10-a-month".

Other aviation analysts said Chinese airlines were more likely to reconsider their Dreamliner orders than many rivals elsewhere, because they had a more aggressive growth profile and were more sensitive to any downgrade to global growth.

Australia's Qantas Airways (QAN.AX), struggling to revive profitability on its long-haul network, said on Tuesday that it remained fully committed to its 50 Dreamliner orders. Air New Zealand AIR.NZ also said it was not reconsidering its orders.

Korean Air Lines (003490.KS) also said it would introduce 10 787-9 Dreamliners from 2016 "as planned".

In Beijing, Boeing China said there was no sign of further cancellations of Chinese orders.

"The other committed Chinese airlines remain committed to the 787," Boeing said in a statement. "The 787 is the right choice for these airlines' international expansion for a number of reasons, including unmatched passenger experience, fuel efficiency and environmental performance."

Among Chinese airlines, China Southern (600029.SS) has 10 Dreamliners on order, Air China (601111.SS) 15, Hainan Airlines (600221.SS) 10 and Xiamen Air six. Hong Kong Airlines had in March signed an preliminary deal to buy 32 of the aircraft.

Boeing said the 24 787s canceled by China Eastern were part of a deal with China's government for the purchase of 60 787s. Globally for 2011, Boeing has reported 26 net cancellations for the Dreamliner, excluding China Eastern's decision.

The Dreamliner is about three years behind its original schedule because of kinks in the sprawling global supply chain.

Boeing still has more than 800 orders for the lightweight, carbon-composite aircraft on its books. It made first delivery of the Dreamliner to All Nippon Airways (9202.T) last month.

A prévoir d'autres annulations
Mais d'autres commandes
A suivre, notamment les autres commandes chinoises...

L'A330-300 fait encore beaucoup de mal à Boeing
L'A332-200 lui est presque foutu sauf cas particulier


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 18 Oct 2011 - 22:42

Bonsoir

Tjs le challenge de la prod pour le 787
Et au passage pour la fin de l'année 25-30 787 et 747 livrés cette année...étonnant ou alors ça se passe pas trop mal en prod...


"The production system is working really well, our partners are doing exactly what we need them to be doing," he said.

"We had significant issues a year ago and we have resolved all of those."

Boeing has "sizeable resident teams" stationed at key suppliers in Japan and Italy to ensure there is no repeat, he added.

Meanwhile, the airframer is still attempting to cut the weight of its 787-8, although it declined to be drawn on how or when this will be achieved.

"I don't know specifically when we'll reach the design weight, but that's almost irrelevant now because we'll continue to push and plan further weight reduction opportunities forever," Maffeo said. "Anything that can save a pound of weight is a big deal."

The next step will be production and certification of the -9 variant. Boeing has completed its detailed design review of the aircraft and will begin assembly next year, with flight testing and certification scheduled for early 2013.

Maffeo also reaffirmed that the airframer's forecast of 25 to 30 combined 787 and 747 deliveries this year.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-plots-787-line-ramp-up-363512/


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Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Mar 18 Oct 2011 - 22:58

Merci Poncho !

Bon, le responsable des appros externes du 787 a plus que rempli la cour de Boeing, peut être même trop !
Bien, si ils en sortent plus d'une quinzaine (De 787) d'ici Noël, ils pourront mettre le drapeau à la fenêtre !

Un autre pas content, chez ATW: LOT , 5 Ans de retard !
Noter que les 40 mois de retard, vont s'allonger encore longtemps, vu les rythmes de fabrication, on à vu avec le A380 !

http://atwonline.com/aircraft-engines-components/news/lot-expects-another-787-delay-now-five-years-behind-schedule-1018

JPRS

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 18 Oct 2011 - 23:05

Comme tu dis...
Comme l'A380


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Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mer 19 Oct 2011 - 9:40

Salut Beochien

Je reprends ton lien ATW sur LOT et le 787


LOT Polish Airlines is expecting another delivery delay of its first Boeing 787, Polish Press Agency PAP reported.

The first delivery, most recently rescheduled for spring 2012, has been pushed back to 2013, more than five years behind the original schedule, PAP reported. Three more 787s were expected to be delivered by the end of next year (ATW Daily News, Aug 23).

LOT placed its first order for seven 787s in 2005, and increased the order to eight in 2007. Deliveries were originally slated to begin in 2008 (ATW Daily News, Sept. 8, 2005).

Boeing suffered a major setback this week when China Eastern (MU) revealed it was canceling its order for 24 787s and instead ordering 15 Airbus A330s (ATW Daily News, Oct. 18). MU has placed a new order for 45 737s, but analysts are saying that other Chinese airlines might now also cancel their Dreamliners.

Despite the 787 delivery delay, LOT plans to launch Warsaw-Beijing services next year. PEK will be its second route to the Far East, in addition to Hanoi.

PAP reported that LOT posted a loss of PLN52 million ($18.4 million) on its core business operations in the first three quarters of 2011, up by PLN44 million compared to the same period last year, CEO Marcin Pirog told PAP Monday.

"Proceeds from our core business operations rose by 6% over the nine months in 2011 while costs rose by 4% (year-on-year), despite fuel prices rising by as much as 27%," Pirog said. "The financial result on the core operations for the three quarters means that a loss declined from PLN96 million in 2010 to PLN52 million this year," he said.

Polish Leasing Co. PLL LOT posted net profits of PLN 5.4 million from January to September 2011.

Ca fait 9 mois de décalage ?
C'est étonnant !
On ne sait pas qui est à l'origine du retard ? LOT ou Boeing, mais vu que LOT souhaite quand même ouvrir les routes prévues initialement en 787, on peut imaginer qu'elle aurait bien pris les 787 !

A suivre


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Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Mer 19 Oct 2011 - 12:27

Pan dans le T1000 inlet du 787 chez ANA, pas grave heureusement !

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ana-knocks-first-787-into-boarding-bridge-363604/

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Mer 19 Oct 2011 - 13:09

Rumeurs ...
China Southern, pourrait suivre le même chemin que China Eastern !
Pour ses 15 787 !
QQ questions quand même, ou est le loup ??
Chez Boeing, ou côté market ..??
Riens de formel cependant ...
A suivre !

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-18/china-southern-may-scrap-787-orders-as-delivery-delayed.html

JPRS

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mer 19 Oct 2011 - 13:50

Surtout que les avions de China Southern sont déjà sur la chaine d'assemblage


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Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Contenu sponsorisé Aujourd'hui à 21:04


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