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Boeing 787 (partie 2)


Whisky Quebec

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par aeroduO5 le Lun 27 Juin 2011 - 19:48

Pour LOT s'il y a 21 sièges en éco+, c'est que ça doit faire 3 rangées à 7 de front.
Je peux me tromper mais je crois que ce sera ça.

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 28 Juin 2011 - 0:06

Reste à savoir combien en éco 8 ou 9 ?

Effectivement en éco+ 7 ça tombe bien, mais ça fait une petite cabine

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 28 Juin 2011 - 9:08

Bon sinon les essais de certification ETOPS de la combo RR/787 sont en cours
En deux étapes : 180 min puis ensuite quand nécessaire 330 min

Pas de dates pour la combo Ge/787

he level of ETOPS certification dictates the required distance of an aircraft operating on a single engine or other flight critical failure from a diversion airport.
The airframer did not immediately have details on the rule change or the nature of the software adjustment, but said no new rule-making stemmed from the November 2010 fire aboard test aircraft ZA002.
Further, the changes are unrelated to the Rolls-Royce Package A engine, which suffered an uncontained failure in August 2010, prompting changes in both hardware and software. Neither manufacturer has detailed what those changes entailed.
Airplane Nine, ZA102, is the lead aircraft for F&R tests, which are scheduled to take 300h and include the ETOPS evaluations which are measured in test points.
"We've flown all of the ETOPS test points in Boeing testing," said Scott Fancher, 787 programme vice president and general manager in a Paris air show interview, with the same points now set to be repeated for certification credit.
"The team has created a solid plan for accomplishing the hours and test points required for F&R and ETOPS testing in support of delivery to our customer ANA in the August to September time period," said Fancher.
Boeing will conduct an additional F&R/ETOPS trial period on the GEnx test aircraft, ahead of that engine-airframe certification, and said it has not yet finalised the plan for the GE engines, or a target for completion.


Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Mar 28 Juin 2011 - 9:17

Oui Poncho !

Vu , ces histoires de ETOPS à double détente, ces serait dû à des chgts réglementaires, hum !
Reste que les versions A du T1000 serviront en inter-iles au Japon !
QQ minutes seulement au dessus de l'eau ! Un excés de confiance, ou juste une période de rodage ! Mad


Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Ven 1 Juil 2011 - 17:37


Petite modif sur le 787 pour la collecte et l'évacuation des fuites de carburant de l'APU
Il parait que ça va se voir

Le lien

En attendant les photos de ZA004

In the next few days a photo will likely surface of a modification to the 787 ZA004's tail cone and the world will wonder what it's intended to do. It's a small change to the Korean Air Aerospace Division (KAL-ASD) section 48 Aft, but it's an important one. The photo above shows ZA001's tail cone before the modification.

Natural fuel leaks from the auxiliary power unit (APU) fueling line were supposed to drain harmlessly out the bottom of the structure as designed, though rather than do that, the fuel was pooling into the APU exhaust cone.

The result, when the APU was started back up again, this page is told, the fuel torched out of the back of the tailcone. Naturally, this was a phenomena Boeing and the FAA wanted to avoid. Sources say APU drainage evaluations have been a particular focus of flight test over the past several months.

Boeing made very few modifications to the outer mold line of the 787 up until now, adding vortex generators on the tail and minor changes to the rigging of the wing slats. This new "flare", as it is known, will be a noticeable shelf and extends about three-quarters of the way along the exhaust cone and past the end, allowing for the fuel to wick off the end into the air, rather than pooling in the bottom of the cone.

Program sources say that the modification has already been installed on ZA004 and is being put into production this week. Those same sources add that a similar system was put in place for early 757s and designed out in later airframes.


Whisky Quebec

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Vector le Ven 1 Juil 2011 - 21:54

Avec la postcombustion, il doit gagner au moins 50 kt.

Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Ven 1 Juil 2011 - 22:07

Oui Jean !
J'ai entrevu des photos, de 757, je crois, qui tirent des flammes de 6 mètres au démarrage, type lance flammes !
Pas bon pour le spectacle dans un terminal ! Sauf le 14 Juillet en Fr !

Whisky Quebec

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Vector le Ven 1 Juil 2011 - 22:12

C'était le cas avec les Super-Constellation dont les moteurs prenaient feu une fois sur deux au démarrage. Il y avait toujours Bébert avec son extincteur à proximité.
Spectaculaire, mais pas vraiement dangereux et à l'époque on pouvait observer le tout depuis les terrasses d'Orly.

Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Sam 2 Juil 2011 - 16:25

Bonjour !

Boeing blinde sa FAL de Charleston ! Entendre : Blindage anti syndical !
Un 2nd site US pour pour fabriquer les dérives verticales des 787 !
Zero dépendance de Seattle , celà semble être la consigne de Chicago !

------------------ Article et Lien de Dominic Gates , le Seattle Times -----------

Boeing opens Salt Lake City line for 787 tailfins

Boeing has opened an assembly line in Salt
Lake City to manufacture the vertical tailfins for the 787 Dreamliners
to be built in its new Charleston, S.C., plant.

By Dominic Gates

Seattle Times aerospace reporter.

Boeing this week formally opened a new assembly line in its
Salt Lake City fabrication plant that will produce the vertical tailfins
for the 787 Dreamliners to be built in its new Charleston, S.C., plant.

Until now, the Dreamliner vertical fin has been the only section of
the 787 made in Washington State. All have been made in Boeing's
composites fabrication center in Frederickson, near Tacoma.

Frederickson will continue to supply the vertical fins for the Everett-built Dreamliners.

Salt Lake's 35,000-square-foot, state-of-the-art composite assembly
line has been set up as part of Boeing's strategy to ensure that
Charleston can operate independently of its factories in the Puget Sound
region by establishing a second source for all Dreamliner parts made


Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par art_way le Mar 12 Juil 2011 - 8:35

Boeing halts 787 line for a month
By Jon Ostrower

Boeing has instituted an approximately one-month hold on the 787 final assembly line and a halt in structural deliveries to its Everett factory due to supplier part "spot shortages" and "remaining engineering changes", the company confirmed, another in a series of halting stops and starts as the production system works to get beyond two aircraft per month.

While the company will not comment on any impact to downstream deliveries, Boeing plans to update to its 2011 delivery guidance on 27 July when it releases its second quarter earnings.

The hold leaves unaffected the August or September first 787 delivery to All Nippon Airways and the company maintains its short and long-term plans to ramp the 787 production line remain unchanged, with plans to advance from two to 2.5 aircraft per month later this summer and 10 per month by the end of 2013.

The line was supposed to have advanced forward during the first week of July, but instead began a 20-manufacturing day hold which is expected to last until the first week of August, says Boeing, which added that production continues on all aircraft.

A typical monthly manufacturing calendar includes 21 days.

This is the company's first 787 line hold in 2011, following four holds in 2010 due to Alenia Aeronautica-built horizontal stabiliser workmanship issues, part shortages and engineering change incorporation.

Airplanes 40, 41, 42 and 43 are currently occupying the four assembly stations inside the Everett factory's 40-26 building, with a full complement of aircraft structures for Airplane 44 at position zero, and wings and horizontal stabiliser for Airplane 45, the first 787 for United-Continental Airlines, now in the factory.

Boeing would not say whether or not it anticipated an upward or downward revision to its 2011 787 delivery guidance, which currently calls for 12 to 20 of the new jets to be in the hands of customers by the end of the year, though customers are already experiencing delays to 2012 deliveries.

Ethiopian Airlines regional director for China, Fikre Degife, told the Wall Street Journal the carrier now expected its first 787 in March 2012, a slip of three months from its previous expectation of January. Airplane 44, now holding in place inside the factory, is the second built for the East African carrier and Boeing has not specified which airframe will be handed over first.

United Airlines CEO Jeff Smisek said 9 July the carrier expects to "proudly take delivery of [its first 787] early next year, we hope".

The US carrier will deploy the 228-seat twin-jet on its inaugural Houston to Auckland, New Zealand route, requiring the aircraft to have 330 minutes extended twin engine operations (ETOPs) certification, which is not expected to be available until just before the aircraft's delivery due to a software change required by the US FAA.

Further, the company's new South Carolina facility is in the early stages of beginning work on Airplane 46, an aircraft for Air India, the first 787 to be built outside of Washington state. Final assembly operations are expected to formally begin later this week, with forward fuselage delivery from Spirit AeroSystems anticipated during the third week of July.


Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Mar 12 Juil 2011 - 8:47

Merci Art Way !

Oui un petit coup d'accordéon dans la FAB du 787, bof, un de plus, et pas forcément significatif de retards suplt à ce stade, de la remise en ordre avant de monter en cadence, c'est tout !
Noté que la 2nd FAL commence avec le N° 46 ! Pour livraison , disons 1° Sem 2012 !

Question ? Combien de temps entre la 1ere livraison de 787 certifié, et la 50 eme !
Juste pour comparer avec Airbus ?? Wink


Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 12 Juil 2011 - 9:33

A noter

United a besoin de l'ETOPS330 pour début 2012
Etiopian semble avoir une livraison repoussée de janvier à mars

Boeing a encore un peu de pain sur la planche !


Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Mar 12 Juil 2011 - 10:46

Bonjour !
Quote Gerfaut sur A.Web !

Dominic Gates, du Seattle Times, lui est bien moins optimiste (Et bien renseigné côté insiders , hum !) , Boeing toujours en prise avec ses vieux démons, les re-works d'enfer Twisted Evil


Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 12 Juil 2011 - 10:58


Qq extraits

A person familiar with the condition of the Dreamliners that have already rolled out of the factory, including the planes to be delivered earliest, said work on those jets is progressing extremely slowly.

Particularly time-consuming tasks include the wholesale replacement of air-conditioning units on each jet and the resealing of all the fasteners in the wing tanks.

"They might get two delivered" by year-end, the person said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Pb d'air conditionné donc + tjs l'étanchéité des réservoirs de voilure

Pour le reste

Boeing’s 787 service-readiness validation in Japan has drawn to a close, following nearly a week of flying and ground exercises at five airports.
During the week of drills, Dreamliner ZA002 flew a pair of round trips between Tokyo Haneda Airport and the Kansai region, first on July 5 to Osaka’s domestic gateway, Itami Airport, then on July 6 to Kansai International Airport–one of ANA’s main hubs for Asia. The following day, on July 7, it flew two more round trips from Tokyo, to Okayama and Hiroshima. On July 10, it completed its final validation mission in Japan, when it landed in Tokyo on a return flight from Nagoya.
Throughout the weeklong program, ZA002 underwent the same maintenance regimen and flew under the same dispatch rules that ANA’s first production 787 will operate under after Boeing delivers it to the Japanese airline in August or September. The only airline to take part in such a validation with Boeing, ANA holds firm orders for 55 Dreamliners.
Following the airplane’s arrival in Tokyo on July 3, ANA employees practiced such tasks as refueling and towing the airplane, and performed inspections to confirm its fit at the maintenance hangar stands and gates. Meanwhile, ground handlers practiced loading containers in the forward and aft cargo bays.
In the flight deck, ANA conducted pre-flight procedures, such as checking flight control surfaces, while, in the cabin, airline engineers used Wi-Fi to download and install the airline’s unique software packages, ensuring they worked together properly with the 787’s systems. All told, Boeing and ANA filled the week’s schedule with more than 100 test conditions.
Plans call for the 787 to next fly to New Delhi and Mumbai, before returning to Seattle. Air India, scheduled to take delivery of its first Dreamliner by the end of the year, holds an order for 27 of the airplanes, while private Indian carrier Jet Airways has placed an order for 10. Boeing forecasts a $150 billion market for 1,320 new passenger airplanes in India over the next 20 years.

Ca a l'air de s'être bien passé au japon !



Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Vortex le Mar 12 Juil 2011 - 12:50

Beochien a écrit:Merci Art Way !

Oui un petit coup d'accordéon dans la FAB du 787, bof, un de plus, et pas forcément significatif de retards suplt à ce stade, de la remise en ordre avant de monter en cadence, c'est tout !
Noté que la 2nd FAL commence avec le N° 46 ! Pour livraison , disons 1° Sem 2012 !

Question ? Combien de temps entre la 1ere livraison de 787 certifié, et la 50 eme !
Juste pour comparer avec Airbus ?? Wink

Quel Airbus ?
Le 350 ?

Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Mar 12 Juil 2011 - 13:05

Je pensais au A380 ... ce sont dans les 3 ans + !
Le A350 ne sera pas inintéressant à suivre, non plus !

Whisky Quebec

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par aeroduO5 le Mar 12 Juil 2011 - 20:19

Ben c'est sûr qu'il mettront moins de 3 ans pour livrer 50 avions.
Et on peut espérer que ce sera la même chose pour l'A350XWB.

Il y a moins de travail dans un 787 ou un A350 que sur un A380.
Donc ça va plus vite.

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mer 13 Juil 2011 - 9:12

On peut faire un prorata des cadence de prod initialement prévues entre l'A380 et le 787 ... (4 pour l'A380 ? et 10 pour le 787 ?) et faire le bilan non pas au 50 ème, mais au 125ème produit
Et considérer qu'il y a déjà presque 50 avions sur les lignes ou les parkings !
Il faut surtout voir combien de temps boeing va mettre pour les livrer ceux là


Boeing is laser sharp when it comes to its use of language, especially in press releases. As ZA002 completes its time in Japan for Service Ready Operational Validation, the company's line on 787 first delivery has changed in a subtle, but important, way. When the company first announced in May it planned to take ZA002 to Japan it narrowed its handover of the first 787 for All Nippon Airways to August or September, that target is now identified as "later this year."

The official Boeing Commercial Airplanes Twitter account responded: "No change to our current plan to deliver the 1st Boeing 787 Dreamliner in August or September timeframe. FYI @flightblogger #787EIS #Boeing"

Alors alors ?
C'est probablement une erreur de communication


Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Mer 13 Juil 2011 - 9:48

Sauf pépin de dernière minute, Boeing, ils feront tout pour livrer leurs premiers 788 ANA, en 2011 ! Razz Arrow
Et sur le front des ennuis ou pépins inattendus, ils ont eu leur dose, et c'est semble t'il enfin calmé ! Rolling Eyes Embarassed

De toute façon, avec ou sans ETOPS, et avec les RR T1000 Version A qui me restent un peu en travers, ceux là, (Et encore plus que ANA les accepte) ils y arriveront bien en 2011 !
Bien, pour de l'inter-îles, ça devrait suffire, juste pour remplacer les 783 !


Whisky Quebec

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Vector le Mer 13 Juil 2011 - 15:35

Bonjour à vous deux,
Je pense que Poncho soulève le bon point à propos des livraisons de 787. Pour des raisons évidentes de "crédibilité" boursière, Boeing ne peut plus reporter ses calendriers, alors on produit et on livre coûte que coûte (c'est le cas de le dire !) quelques avions de présérie (le terme a disparu du langage) à ANA pour les calmer et on fera les remises à niveau dans 6 mois. Entre temps on compense financièrement les limitations de charge, d'autonomie, etc. en espérant avoir ramassé tous les bugs importants au niveau des essais et en comptant sur l'exploitation en ligne pour corriger les autres, y compris sur les moteurs. Ces 787 sont des "bêtas" au sens informatique du terme.
Mais la viabilité du programme se jouera sur les cadences de production de l'avion et des moteurs. C'est là qu'on pourra mesurer les vrais retards du programme au-delà des 3 ans déjà digérés. Je ne me souviens pas où se situait le point de break-even initial, mais il n'a pu que reculer et il faudra que l'avion soit vraiment bon (ce que je crois) pour faire ses frais à long terme.


Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Rasta' le Mar 19 Juil 2011 - 11:23

Selon l'analyste Ernest Arvai sur Airinsight, Boeing pourrait ne pas atteindre ses objectifs initiaux de livraison pour 2011 en raison de trop nombreux Reworks

Je laisse l'article à votre appréciation
787 Deliveries Shrinking in 2011

Problems with re-work and flight test results continue to plague
the beleaguered 787 program, and we understand that only 3-5 deliveries
will occur in 2011, down from a projected 12-20 as of Boeing’s last
earnings call. Compounding the problem, we understand that only 5 747-8
aircraft will be delivered this year also. This is not good news for
Boeing, which is expected to formally announce additional program delays
at its earnings call on Wednesday the 27th of July.
This eighth (we’re losing count) delay for the 787 program continues
to erode Boeing’s credibility with respect to deliveries and meeting its
commitments. The key question is whether potential passengers will
accept the 787, or be leery of the new technology aircraft and book
around it, given the massive negative publicity the program has incurred
over the last few years.
We hope Boeing can resolve the issues and finally get this aircraft
certified and into production soon, as it is becoming a continuing
embarrassment that has seriously eroded the competitive position of the
company and its planned Yellowstone strategy.

18. July 2011 von Ernest S. Arvai

Categories: Aerospace, Boeing |
Tags: 787, Boeing |
Leave a comment

Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Mar 19 Juil 2011 - 11:30

Merci Rasta!

Oui, ils préparent une annonce chez Boeing ... pour la fin de mois !
XX pretextes, mais à par ANA, avec des 787 Trentisés version A ... hum, et peut être même sans ETOPS ...
A mon avis, ils auraient dû éviter, m'enfin ...

Je ne vois pas grand chose de mieux ... et ce ne sera pas trop glorieux !
Et une grosse poignée de 748F, pour se remonter le moral !!!


Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mer 20 Juil 2011 - 12:33

Bon il devrait y avoir qq 787 Genx pour Air India = 4 à partir d'octobre

A voir si cette annonce prend en compte les derniers événements chez Boeing

Air India will take delivery of its first Boeing 787 in October, a company source has indicated, with a further three to follow before the end of the year.
The carrier will receive a total of seven by the end of March 2012, the source said. India's flag carrier has 27 of the type on order.
The airline will use the twinjets on its long-haul services, but the source was unable to say which aircraft they will replace as this is still in the "planning stage".
Air India's first 787, which is likely to be Airplane 25 from the Boeing assembly line, will be registered as VT-ANA, and is powered by General Electric GEnx-1B engines


Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Jeu 21 Juil 2011 - 23:18


On repart sur le 787
Pour le -9 à priori retard aussi...

Air New Zealand has said frustration would be an "understatement" of its reaction to a new delay that could now see the Boeing 787-9 enter service later in 2014 than planned.
Boeing had last advised ANZ, the launch customer of the stretched 787, that it would receive its first of eight aircraft in late 2013 or early 2014. ANZ said that date has slipped to an undetermined period in 2014 that it is still in discussions with Boeing about.
A spokeswoman for Boeing said that late 2013 remains the target, "although we are continually assessing that schedule as we move toward planned rate increases in the programme".
Boeing had not provided delivery guidance since confirming in the week beginning 11 July that earlier in the month it had implemented a hold until the first week of August to the 787 final assembly line.
It expects to provide further guidance during its 27 July second quarter earnings call.
"It would be an understatement to say we are frustrated and disappointed," said ANZ chief financial officer Rob McDonald.
The 787-9's original delivery date was late 2010 and ANZ had planned to use the aircraft for fleet simplification and expansion, forcing the carrier to change strategy.
"We're on about plan C," McDonald said.
ANZ hoped to retire its Boeing 747-400 fleet by the end of 2012 but will now keep an undisclosed number until the 787s arrive. It will also postpone retiring its 767s, which the 787s are largely due to replace.
ANZ currently operates five 747-400s and five 767-300ERs, according to Flightglobal's ACAS database.
While ANZ would prefer to retire both types, McDonald said keeping the
767 is more ideal. "Our 767 fleet is very sound and relatively low-cost and performs its mission really well."
In comparison to ANZ's 777-300ER, McDonald said the 747 uses 30% more fuel to carry approximately the same number of passengers but 40% less cargo.
Despite that, McDonald is adamant keeping the 747s and 767s is appropriate.
"It's better to do that and wait for the 787 than get a lot more aircraft that aren't as suitable as the 787s," he said. "You might get an early lead for a couple of years but you might not have the right plane in 20 years."
In the long-term, the 787 will enable ANZ to serve South America. The carrier sees the continent - and Sao Paulo in particular - as holding growth opportunities as ANZ and its government seek to develop New Zealand into a hub for passengers travelling between Australasia and South America, waypoints currently connected via hubs in the Middle East and Europe.
"For South America we're certainly looking for a game-changing aircraft that we can exploit," McDonald said, adding that existing aircraft would have payload restrictions or prohibitively high fuel burn rates between New Zealand and South America.
In the short-term, ANZ could see a South American traffic boost if LAN Airlines, which serves Auckland from Santiago, switches alliances from oneworld to ANZ's Star Alliance. Last year LAN agreed to merge with Star Alliance carrier TAM. The two have not announced which alliance they will participate in post-merger.
"In South America there is alliance positioning going on. We'll have to see how that plays out," McDonald said.
Despite interest in South America, McDonald said ANZ was most likely to first deploy its 787-9s to Asia, and specifically China or Japan.
But he said ANZ is in discussions with Boeing about the number of 787-9s initially to be delivered.
McDonald said ANZ does not plan to order additional aircraft but noted that "we do have options". That includes options for 31 Airbus A320s, nine 777-200ERs, 15 777-300ERs, and 12 787-9s, according to ACAS.
ANZ still aims to streamline its long-haul fleet to the 777 and 787 and then use their cockpit commonality to establish a single pilot group that could fly anywhere on the carrier's long-haul network.
"There are some great rostering efficiencies you can get in there," McDonald said.

A priori ça glisse vers 2014 (+4 ans !)

A suivre

Le reste c'est sur les déboires d'ANZ
Intéressant la communalité entre le 777-300ER et le 787

Bonne soirée


Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Ven 22 Juil 2011 - 13:04


L'article de Dominic Gates "Updated today " peut être pour ANZ
Noté que les premiers avions de ANA devraient échapper aux nouveaux retards ...

Mais ...

Des pieces qui manquent encore !

Et des systèmes d' Air Conditionné à changer, ça fait un bout de temps qu'ils en parlent !
Jamais su ce qu'ils leur reprochent !

Et des commentaires pas triste de Scott Hamilton, sur la cupule Macdo-Boeing !
Vu hier soir !


Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 26 Juil 2011 - 9:27

Mise à jour du programme de livraison pour cette année et du reste
Long et intéressant
Mais pas encore officiel

5 à 6 787-8 cette année
le 787-9 qui progresse plus lentement que prévu -> +3 à 6 mois de retard pour ANZ qui en prendre livraison en H1 2014
le certif du 787-8 tout début septembre

Entre les lignes, Charleston semble favorisée par rapport à Everett... cela dit, Everett l'experience du rattrapage en cata sur les lignes ils l'ont...

A suivre donc

Si c'est 5-6 avions c'est peu quand même

With final certification submittals to the US Federal Aviation Administration in sight, Boeing aims to deliver the first 787 to Japan's All Nippon Airways around the third week of September, but is not likely to deliver more than five or six 787s before the close of the year, say company and industry sources, who say the slow pace of progress of reworking and outfitting each airframe is taking longer than expected.

Further, ahead of a planned critical program review in the late summer or early fall, an entry into service slip of the larger 787-9 appears almost certain, say company, supplier, industry sources pushing handover to of the first aircraft to launch customer Air New Zealand into the first half of 2014 with an additional delay of three to six months, due to a slower than expected pace of design, possibly paired with a more modest production ramp up.

Boeing said it would provide updated 2011 delivery guidance at its July 27 second quarter earnings call, but declined to say if it would update its 787-9 entry into service target from its late 2013 goal, but said its current target remains unchanged.

Yet the company's near term halt in deliveries to final assembly highlights the remaining challenges of how the 787 production system learns and achieves 10 aircraft per month by 2013, all while standing up its second final assembly line in Charleston.

Sources on both sides of the US say that completion of the 787's aft body has been of particular focus during the delivery hold, which is expected to expire in early August.

"The adjustment is due to a few production areas in the supply chain experiencing temporary challenges related to spot parts shortages and remaining engineering change incorporation," says Boeing.

Going into the month-long delivery hold, the first shipsets for the newly opened Charleston final assembly were the first to be delivered with 100% completion of assembly, the first in the program's history.

While on its surface an extremely positive development for a program that has worked for years to eliminate incomplete shipsets, multiple sources confirm that both Airplane 45 had considerably lower completion in comparison to earlier aircraft, and Airplane 47 - which has not yet been delivered to Everett - was expected to carry considered travelled work before the delivery halt.

The cause, say those with direct familiarity in Everett and Charleston, stemmed from Airplanes 45 and 47 being "cannibalized" for Airplane 46's completion.

Boeing says: "We're not confirming supplier by supplier details, nor completion of assembly by line number."

The Aerospace Learning Curve

While Boeing has sought to take advantage of lean manufacturing techniques built into the production system, the reality, and the uneveness of completion, illustrates how the lean processes have been hard to meet deeper in the supply chain.

Notably, that as completion of assembly decreases and work is pushed later in the supply chain or even to final assembly, those responsible for the task completion are denied the opportunity to learn a steady repetition in their statement of work, say those with direct familiarity with the 787's production system.

Though the 787 final assembly line in Everett is definitively improving say company sources, citing Airplane 40 as an important turning point, with the first to have all of its flight controls - including long-missing flaps - installed before leaving the factory, along with its auxiliary power unit.

Despite the steady improvement the unevenness in production, and the amount of rework required on Airplanes ahead of 40, highlight how aerospace manufacturing systems "learn" at different rates.

The industry standard places the "curve" at around 85%. An 85% learning curve denotes for every doubling of production, the cost of each completed aircraft is reduced by another 15%.

For example, if the first item is at the top of the learning curve costs $1, the second will cost $.85 to produce. The fourth will cost 85% of the second at $.72, and the eighth 85% of fourth.

"The 85% learning curve is kind of the text book long-range average," says Scott Fancher, 787 vice president and general manager, "But in fact, when we look at our database of actual learning curves across many programs, you see quite a wide variation."

"It really depends upon the automation, the maturity of that automation the complexity of the structure being put together, the quality and the experience of workforce and the training of the workforce.

"It's hard to draw conclusions about what you would expect on 787 from that number," he adds.

In areas that have seen very little traveled work and not had a lot of design changes, Fancher says, "our productivity and quality numbers are better than our projections, we're very pleased the way that aspect is coming together."

When asked if those areas were exceeding the 85% textbook curve, Fancher would only say "They're doing better than our projections" without offering specifics.

UBS Research analyst, David Strauss, said in a June report that estimated the 777's learning curve to be approximately 84%, ahead of the industry average.

"Our analysis indicates that Boeing is assuming much faster learning on 787 than it was able to achieve on 777 despite having less control of production this time," says Strauss, who estimates that each 787 costs approximately $250 to 300 million.

Based on Boeing's disclosure that it expects its per aircraft cost to fall below the program's averaged cost as it hits its production rate of 10 per month at the end of 2014, the 787 production system must achieve a 24% learning curve, nearly 50% higher than 777.

If Boeing achieves a learning curve comparable to the 777 "we see 787 burning $4 billion in cash on average annually through 2015," he adds.

The Final Weeks

Boeing is anticipating completion of 787 extended operations (ETOPS) and systems functionality and reliability (F&R) testing by the close of July, following Airplane Nine's remote deployment to Guam, which is underway.

Company sources expect final documentation is expected to be handed over to the US Federal Aviation early to mid August with an approximately 30 day review period to follow culminating in awarding of the 787's type certificate in early September.

The handover of Airplane Eight is expected around the third week of September, with Airplane 24 to follow closely after, the subsequent airframes at Boeing ATS - are advancing, but not at the pace needed to make room allowing for the 12 to 20 787 deliveries the company forecast earlier this year.

According to Leeham Co, Boeing guidance is expected to be closer to eight or nine 787s delivered in 2011.

The first 787 for launch customer All Nippon Airways will enter revenue service in October connecting a charter route between Tokyo-Narita International Airport and Hong Kong's Chek Lap Kok Airport.


Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Mar 26 Juil 2011 - 11:00

Oui Poncho, le feuilleton de la FAB du 787, va succéder aux préséries .... !
Et pour quand les10 par mois, et le passage dans le positif des coûts de production !

Et un duel attendu !
Qui du A359 ou du B789 volera le premiers , et qui va EIS le premier ... pas forcément le même d'ailleurs!
Les Test du 787-9 devant être plus rapides, et sans trop de surprises ...

Whisky Charlie

Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Beochien le Jeu 28 Juil 2011 - 10:18

Bonjour !

McNerney dans son exercice favori !
Confirmer des délais alors que plus personne n'y croit ...
Le 789, en 2013 comme prévu, c'est bien !
Tout le monde rigole sur la planète "Analystes" mais qu'importe s'il y a l'ivresse des bonnes nouvelles !
Avis aux NZ scratch .... souriez donc, tout va bien ! rendeer jocolor king

----------------De FlightGlobal , Jon Ostrower , parmis d'autres... le lien -------------


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Re: Boeing 787 (partie 2)

Message par Contenu sponsorisé

    La date/heure actuelle est Dim 19 Fév 2017 - 12:51