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AVIC / COMAC

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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

AVIC / COMAC

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Jeu 29 Sep 2011 - 9:31

bonjour à tous

Un long article intéressant sur les challenges qui d'offrent à COMAC /AVIC en particulier sur l'ARJ21
Une partie de la légitimité du C919 sera basée sur l'expérience du développement et les retours d'exploitants de l'ARJ21

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-28/china-s-delays-on-regional-jet-weaken-threat-to-boeing-airbus-duopoly.html

un extrait


hina’s bid to break Airbus SAS and Boeing Co. (BA)’s stranglehold on the global aircraft market is being hindered by a four-year delay in delivering the nation’s first passenger jet.
The 90-seat ARJ21 won’t enter service this year as it is still going through safety tests needed to win certification from China’s aviation regulator, Tian Min, chief financial officer of state-controlled Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China Ltd., said last week. The plane was due to begin commercial flights service as early as 2007.
The ARJ21’s failure to win regulatory approval almost four years after the first aircraft was assembled may hamper Comac sales as customers can’t be sure when they will get planes, said Ken Zhang, a Beijing-based analyst with Founder Securities Co. The delay may also disrupt development of the larger 168-seat C919, which will compete with revamped Boeing and Airbus aircraft in a domestic market that may more than triple by 2030.
“It’s only logical for customers to slow orders when they don’t know when delays will be resolved,” Zhang said. “The problems just show that challenging experienced players is always easier said than done, especially in aerospace.”
Comac has 206 orders for the ARJ21, predominately from state-controlled companies in China. Of that tally, only 35 have been won since 2008, when the aircraft made its maiden flight. The plane, which competes with Bombardier Inc. (BBD/B) and Embraer SA (EMBR3) aircraft, has General Electric Co. (GE) engines and a maximum range of 2,225 kilometers (1,382 miles) for the standard model, according to Shanghai-based Comac’s website.
Unknown Schedule
Chengdu Airlines Co., which is part-owned by Comac, is due to be the first operator of the regional jet. The carrier doesn’t know when it will begin to receive planes, said a spokeswoman, who declined to give her name. Deliveries are unlikely to start before the second half of next year, said David Wei, an analyst with Shanghai Securities Co.
“The delays for the ARJ21 highlight the difficulties in getting certification,” he said. “The C919 delivery schedule may also be too tight.”
Comac isn’t alone in suffering delays in developing new planes. Boeing this week delivered its first 787 to All Nippon Airways Co. three years late. Airbus postponed the handover of its A380 superjumbo by almost two years. Singapore Airlines Ltd. (SIA) received the first in 2007.
Comac expects the C919 to make its first flight in 2014 and to enter commercial service two years later. The planemaker has won as many as 100 orders for the aircraft and it will announce “substantial” new deals this year, Chen Jin, its general manager for sales and marketing, said last week.
Regulatory Delays
Approval for the ARJ21 may be taking longer than expected because it is the first time that Comac has built a jet plane and the first time that the Civil Aviation Administration of China, or CAAC, has had to certify one, said Wei and Feng Fuzhang, a Beijing-based China Securities Co. analyst.
A high-speed train accident in July, which killed 40 people, and a Chinese-made propeller-aircraft crash in May in Indonesia that killed 25 people may also have made the regulator more cautious, said Founder’s Zhang.
“The recent train crash is a setback for China’s hi-tech manufacturing,” he said. “The CAAC may be even stricter with the new plane now.” Two phone calls to the aviation regulator yesterday went unanswered.
The process of winning approval for ARJ21 from the Chinese regulator and the Federal Aviation Administration in the U.S. are running “smoothly,” said Comac’s Tian. “It’s normal for there to be some technical issues, but so far there haven’t been any disruptive problems,” he said. He declined to elaborate.
C919 Certification
The experience Comac and the regulator gain from certifying the ARJ21 may mean that they can more quickly process the C919, said China Securities’ Feng. Comac may also now be more focused on the C919 than the ARJ21 as it’s a more important product for the company, he said
The ARJ21 has so far undertaken tests in cross winds, high temperatures and high humidity, said Comac’s Tian. He declined to say how many other stages the plane needs to complete. At least four planes have been used for tests, according to Comac’s website. Stall tests began late last year, according to People’s Daily.
The delays for the ARJ21 may disrupt Comac’s plans to win overseas approval for the C919 as the FAA is refusing to work on assessing the larger plane until the first one wins certification, aerospace magazine Aviation Week & Space Technology reported earlier this month, without saying where it got the information from. If the C919 advances much further without the regulator’s involvement, the FAA may decide it can never become involved, the report said.
FAA Approval
The FAA is working with the Chinese regulator on the ARJ21, said Les Dorr, a spokesman for the Washington-based regulator. He declined to comment on the C919 saying that the agency doesn’t discuss certification efforts in detail.
Overseas suppliers for Chinese aircraft are also helping in the regulatory process. For instance, Honeywell International Inc., which will make parts for the ARJ21 and the C919 through local ventures, has worked with partners on approval processes, said Mark Howes, its Asia-Pacific aerospace president.
“There’s always great interest from the perspective of our partners to learn more about certification with the FAA,” he said.



_________________
@avia.poncho

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par Beochien le Ven 8 Juin 2012 - 10:58

Bonjour !

A qq jours d'une réunion de l'IATA à Pékin, Reuters nous fait un reportage qui ramène un peu les illusions, vers un horizon assez ... terre à terre !
En gros, ce n'est pas facile du tout, pour Comac, et l'industrie Chinoise ...en conséquence, beaucoup de secrets et de dissimulations !

Et en pointillés, la FAA ne va pas faire le boulot à leur place ... hum !

5 ans de retard pour l'ARJ ... et peut être 3 pour le Comac 919 ! Embarassed

Evidemment, une "Discrète" aide extérieure, semble la bienvenue !

Et, hum beaucoup de spéculations (C'est moi qui le dit) autour du CFM LeapX qui sévaporent ... ils auront certainement le modèle des A320 NEO sur le C919 ... ce serait plus logique que de s'énerver (Et perdre du temps) sur un modèle incomplet qui arriverait plus (trop) tôt ..
Juste mon idée !

----------- Un extrait et le lien de Reuters, prudemment non signé ! Mad ----------

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/06/08/airlines-china-comac-idINL4E8GV3BN20120608


In interviews with executives from three different technology suppliers working with Commercial Aircraft Corp of China (Comac) to develop passenger jets, Reuters has learned that various tests over the past two years have identified flaws in the ARJ21's wings, wiring and computer systems.

During a stress test in mid-2010, the wings of the ARJ21 broke, or "cracked" in one executive's description, before the pressure applied reached regulatory norms.

In further examinations conducted last year, the avionics system -- the brain of the plane -- failed at times to work properly, highlighting what one of the three suppliers executives described as a "system integration problem." Faults in the wiring were also discovered in those tests, according to the supplier executives.

The results of the tests have been rumoured among industry insiders, but the Shanghai-based aircraft maker has never spoken publicly about them.

"You should have seen the faces (of Comac engineers and executives)" said one of the three suppliers, who was at the 2010 test in a lab in the central Chinese city of Xi'an, speaking on condition of anonymity. "There was uncomfortable silence in the room."

Comac declined to comment on the matters raised in this report. But it said one version of the plane - the ARJ21-700 - completed a nearly two-hour test flight in February this year.

China's civil aviation regulator could not be reached for comment.
--------

JPRS


Dernière édition par Beochien le Ven 8 Juin 2012 - 11:34, édité 2 fois

Paul
Whisky Quebec

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par Paul le Ven 8 Juin 2012 - 11:12

Bonjour,

On remarque également l'énorme bordel qu'est l'ARJ21 qui, s'il était fabriqué dans un pays occidental, aurait été annulé depuis longtemps.

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Ven 8 Juin 2012 - 11:19

Salut Paul

Ca a effectivement l'air d'être sacrément le bordel.
En contrejour, on voit que les russes sont tjs capables de sortir des avions presque dans les temps (SSJ) et utulisables.
Ce n'est pas une mauvaise idée de se rattacher à eux c'est sûr


_________________
@avia.poncho

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par Beochien le Ven 8 Juin 2012 - 11:29

Mouais ...

Farnborough sera peut être difficile an niveau des com's pour COMAC ! Seppuku

ARJ21 ...

A moins de fusiller les état major's de Reuters AP, et Bloomberg tous à la fois !

Et ... ne pas oublier de mettre Richard Aboulafia aux fers !
:cellule: boulet

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par Beochien le Ven 2 Aoû 2013 - 20:24

Bonsoir !

Vu par le Cousin chez A.Web !

Le C-919, ben ça ne va pas trop fort ... vers 2020 peut être ?? Rolling Eyes 
Chez Leeham  !

Allez la FAL Airbus à Tianjin, il lui reste encore un peu de temps de vie pour fabriquer des A320 NEO !

http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2013/08/02/c919-program-in-trouble/

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Ven 2 Aoû 2013 - 23:13

Merci

Oui ça ne va pas fort
Comme quoi !
A suivre au passage les russes, pour évaluer ce qu'il leur reste de compétences (MC21), quoique le SSJ n'est pas la cata (déjà il vole)


_________________
@avia.poncho

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par Beochien le Mar 6 Aoû 2013 - 16:44

Bien, toujours la même chose...
Mais c'est le WSJ qui le dit !

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324653004578651622102076156.html

patrick1956
Whisky Quebec

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par patrick1956 le Jeu 26 Sep 2013 - 13:03

En plein salon avoir a faire cette annonce ne contribue pas a achete cet avion
source air et cosmos
http://www.air-cosmos.com/industrie/quatre-ans-de-retard-pour-l-arj21-chinois.html

Paul
Whisky Quebec

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par Paul le Jeu 26 Sep 2013 - 13:06

Un autre article français qui raconte n'importe quoi. L'EIS originale de l'ARJ700 était 2007 donc il aura au moins 7 ans de retard. De plus, le nouveau délai prévoit l'EIS pour fin 2014 pas au début.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comac_ARJ21

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/comac-aims-to-deliver-first-arj21-by-end-2014-391012/

patrick1956
Whisky Quebec

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par patrick1956 le Jeu 26 Sep 2013 - 14:03

Ca prouve que la technologie chinoise est pas au point et ça c'est profitable aux deux constructeurs Airbus et Boeing

patrick1956
Whisky Quebec

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par patrick1956 le Mar 7 Jan 2014 - 17:49


patrick1956
Whisky Quebec

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par patrick1956 le Lun 3 Fév 2014 - 7:21


Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par Beochien le Ven 31 Oct 2014 - 16:33

Bon article, excellente MAJ de Aviation Week, par Bradley Perrett !

L'avancement des programmes COMAC, pour le C919 et l'ARJ21 !
Rien de bien nouveau, mais une bonne compil ...

Noté les PB d'ajustement des C919, et que l'avion sera presque plus petit que le A320 !
Noté aussi que l'ARJ sera pratiquement à re-moderniser dés sa sortie ... holé !

http://aviationweek.com/commercial-aviation/c919-inches-toward-flight-testing-arj21-toward-upgrade

Paul
Whisky Quebec

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par Paul le Mar 23 Déc 2014 - 3:43

Li Ka-shing qui s'est payé un paquet d'avions pour se lancer dans le leasing le mois dernier, vient d'acheter une part de 10% dans AVIC.

http://www.cannews.com.cn/2014/1223/115361.shtml

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: AVIC / COMAC

Message par Beochien le Mar 10 Fév 2015 - 15:48


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