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Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 14 Sep 2010 - 9:38

Bonjour

Je continue à mettre des liens

bit.ly cbmw0Y

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/awx/2010/09/13/awx_09_13_2010_p0-253872.xml&headline=Chinese Leasing Company Considers CSeries&channel=comm


China’s Changjiang Leasing is negotiating with Bombardier over a possible order for CSeries airliners, but is reluctant to commit itself before it can be certain of the program schedule.
After the experience of the Airbus A380 and Boeing 787 programs, it is difficult to place great trust in a manufacturer’s promised delivery dates, says Ren Weidong, executive vice president of the Hainan Airlines Group lessor.
“We are discussing it [a CSeries order] now,” he says. “The problem is when they can deliver the plane.”
Ren believes he has reasons to be skeptical. “I was the project manager for the 787 at Hainan Airlines.”
A Bombardier executive says airlines’ and lessors’ lack of trust in manufacturers’ development schedules has become a problem in selling the aircraft. The first delivery of a CSeries aircraft is due in 2013.
A CSeries order would be part of the expansion program at Changjiang, which Ren says will double its portfolio to 200 aircraft over the coming five to six years.
The company is expanding now by extending lease finance on aircraft that airlines have ordered, rather than by ordering itself. Available delivery slots generally are too far away, presenting too much risk for the lessor, Ren said on the sidelines of a conference, the Commercial Aircraft Forum in Shanghai.
There is no shortage of airlines seeking such financing, he added. Changjiang is itself financed mainly by bank loans.
Expansion will also include spreading Changjiang’s business beyond China. “We are talking to some foreign airlines now in Asia and elsewhere.”.
Ren sees narrowbody aircraft accounting for a rising proportion of the fleets of Chinese airlines as routes fragment and the system comes to look more like that of the United States.



On parle de China’s Changjiang Leasing
On parle aussi de la crédibilité des avionneurs qui mènent leur programme neuf avec bcp de retard, ce qui n'incite pas à aller vers de nouveaux avions... surtout dans le cas du Cseries où les slots ne sont pas encore cher compte tenu du carnet de commande.

Un piste intéressante sur l'évolution du marché chinois : de plus en plus fragmenté...

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Beochien le Mar 14 Sep 2010 - 20:18

Bonsoir !

Un post de Addison Schönland, AirInsight !
Le C-Séries en Chine ... pourquoi pas ... en attendant !
Mais les délais, c'est la grande inconnue !
Les vraies perfs aussi, au passage !
Pas négatif non plu, on attend, c'est tout !

------------ La ref Aviation Week Aussi Le lien --------------

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news/awx/2010/09/13/awx_09_13_2010_p0-253872.xml&headline=Chinese%20Leasing%20Company%20Considers%20CSeries

-------------------------------------------------------


China and CSeries

Addison Schonland | September 14, 2010 at 10:07 am | Tags: Bombardier, CSeries | Categories: Bombardier | URL: http://wp.me/pYdBy-5G
Take a look at this interesting story from Aviation Week. Despite the expected sources sowing doubts about the CS, there is, in fact, rising interest. Why do we say rising? Because we are hearing of three potential orders coming - one of which is from China. The article above mentions interest from a different China source than we have heard about - now there are four potential customers.The concerns expressed by various parties (OEMs specifically) about the viability of the CS have clearly caused the trade press to use a more questioning tone when reporting on the program. The article states the potential Chinese customer's fears of delivery delays. Of course the customer is correct to have such concerns.But note that this concern is based on experience with a program unrelated to Bombardier. What we are seeing is that concerns about new airplane programs recently and currently underway are impacting CS sales campaigns. Clearly the thinking is that if Airbus, Boeing and SuperJet have had challenges meeting schedules, how could Bombardier be immune?On its face a reasonable question. But it would be equally reasonable to assume that Bombardier has learned lessons - from internal experience as well as the other OEMs. Let's review what Bombardier is doing to mitigate against risk.

  • The CS program is taking 63 months for product development. This compares to Boeing's planned 48 months for the 787.
  • They created the CIASTA program to test every part going in to the CS.
  • The new wing is being tested in Belfast and passed the 150% stress test without breaking.
  • The first fuselage arrived from China last year and is well into its lifecycle testing.
In other words, Bombardier is undertaking a multistage process of risk mitigation. The lessons learned internally come from years of working with a global supply chain plus the need to give themselves more development time based on experience from the Global Express aircraft.Is this a guarantee of on-time delivery? Of course not, but it seems reasonable that the company is doing whatever it takes to reduce risk of late deliveries. Because new programs are risky the CS EIS might slip - maybe months, but years late? That does not seem likely.

JPRS

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Beochien le Lun 20 Sep 2010 - 23:24

Bonne nuit !

Allez, en espérant qu'ils ne vont pas la caviarder* cette nuit !
Juste reçu , un post Airinsight, plutôt à faveur du C'Séries

Je fais le boulot, et re-poste !

Beau cours de Mktg, on espère juste que ça suive !

* Mr Arvai m'en doit une, depuis qu'il a effacé le post sur Honeywell !

------------- De Ernest ARVAI* De AirInsight --------

http://airinsight.wordpress.com/2010/09/20/analysts-bullish-on-cseries/


Analysts Bullish on CSeries

Ernest Arvai | September 20, 2010 at 12:55 pm | Tags: Airbus A320, Boeing 737NG, Bombardier, CSeries, Pratt & Whitney 1000G | Categories: Aerospace, Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier, Pratt & Whitney | URL: http://wp.me/pYdBy-6y
An article in the Montreal Gazette over the weekend entitled "CSeries story will have happy ending" quotes several noted aviation analysts, including Michael Boyd of Boyd International and Marco Pencak of GMP Securities, as well as our own Scott Hamilton and Addison Schonland.Boyd focused on the superior economics of the CSeries over both current offerings and re-engining programs and that even with new aircraft, Bombardier will have a significant lead in the market.

He also indicates that while the aircraft is aimed at a specific market niche, that niche is substantial enough for a significant production run, as a 160 seat Boeing 737 could be replaced by a 145 seat CS300.
Pencak indicated that he believed order momentum would begin to build for the aircraft in 2011, with several orders expected.

He indicated that expectations for Farnborough orders that did not materialize has been perceived negatively, but should not impact the overall success of the program.
Addison Schonland indicated that uncertainties caused by delays at Airbus with the A380 and Boeing with the 787 and 747-8 have potential customers concerned, and holding back on orders until they have more clarity on the status of the program.

As a result of failures by Boeing and Airbus, Bombardier may have a spike in orders once it appears its program will be on-time. So far, they are on schedule.Scott Hamilton is taking a more cautious approach than Michael Boyd, but is impressed with the economics of the aircraft, which Boeing and Airbus will need to match.
The consensus view at AirInsight is positive with respect to the CSeries. Bombardier will be the first to market with a new technology aircraft that will offer significant savings, far more than re-engined aircraft. While the PW1524G engines on the CSeries provide double digit fuel burn savings over existing models, that represents only half of the gain in operating economics, which also result from improved systems, innovative materials, and advanced technologies. An existing model, even if re-engined with the PW GTF, would fall substantially short of the economics of the CSeries.

With pending announcements on the horizon from Airbus within a couple of weeks, and Boeing by year end, many customers are waiting to compare the CSeries with forthcoming alternatives by the bid two.

As a result, the CSeries appears to be in a temporary holding pattern until market uncertainties are removed.
Historically, economics have always driven demand, and this aircraft, with industry leading economics, has taxied out, and seems to be in "position and hold" mode prior to take off. We expect 2-3 additional customers prior to year end, and momentum to begin to build in 2011.



Bien , si ça marche !
JPRS

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Beochien le Ven 24 Sep 2010 - 11:38

Bonjour !

Selon le mktg de Bombardier !
Le C Séries a de bons prospects, et des négociations très actives ...
Peu de détail normal, parole de vendeurs !
l'avion dans les specs arrive au désign de détails !
Bien attention aux détails qui pèsent, ou qui retardent !

A lire dans FG !

--------------- De Flightglobal l' Extrait ---------------
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/09/24/347780/bombardier-indicates-more-cseries-orders-to-come-soon.html

Bombardier indicates more CSeries orders to come soon
By Victoria Moores


Bombardier insists more orders for its CSeries twin-jet programme are set to be disclosed shortly.In a programme update during the European Regions Airline Association general assembly in Barcelona, Bombardier Commercial Aircraft president Gary Scott said the manufacturer was in talks with "dozens" of potential CSeries operators."I would say we're in advanced discussions with a handful of those," he says. "We anticipate that these discussions will turn into orders in the not-too-distant future."He declines to elaborate on the timelines and says the orders could be from virtually any part of the world."The [CSeries] orders we've seen so far have been for 20, 30, 40 aircraft and these are representative of the kind of orders which are likely to continue," says Scott. "This is a new fleet type, so customers are looking at a significant number of aircraft."He says the talks which are nearing completion are "not small orders". Most of them are for 10-12 aircraft.Scott says Bombardier has just completed the programme's joint definition phase, showing it can deliver on the advertised specifications of the CSeries."Now we are into the detailed design phase, which will be completed early next year,"

JPRS

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Ven 24 Sep 2010 - 11:41

A voir

Delta parle des Cseries en indiquant que l'avion est intéressant, mais que le GTF soulève des questions...
Je pense que le jour où Airbus officialisera le GTF sur sur A320, cela validera les dires de PW sur la fiabilité de l'engin...
Et à ce titre je pense qu'ils sont pressés chez PW de faire leur entrée sur l'A320
A suivre


_________________
@avia.poncho

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Beochien le Ven 24 Sep 2010 - 12:06

Merci Poncho !
Tu as qq chose sur ce que dit Delta !

Bon, entre ce que disent les Mktgs de tout bord, et le forcing promo, des propres P&W, c'est certain qu'il y a de quoi remplir qq pages et bonjour pour les trier !

Pour moi le principe du moteur est bon et les promesses SFC, sont trés atteignables, et avec de bonnes marges de corrections à la hausse, SFC Ripoux, just in case !...
On verra la qualité de la réalisation dans une paire d'années !

JPRS

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Ven 24 Sep 2010 - 12:11

Posté dans le topic Delta Wink


_________________
@avia.poncho

jullienaline
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par jullienaline le Ven 24 Sep 2010 - 18:31

Bonjour à tous,

Le choix des fournisseurs se poursuit et Bombardier essaye de privilégier des sources canadiennes.

Fournisseurs canadiens sélectionnés pour le programme d’avions CSeries :

Delastek, de Grand-Mère (Québec), fournira l’ensemble intégré de poste de pilotage.
Marinvent Corporation, de Saint-Bruno (Québec), a été sélectionnée pour développer le tout nouveau logiciel de gestion d’essais en vol des avions CSeries.
Mecachrome de Mirabel et Elisen Technologies de Dorval, toutes deux du Québec, fournissent des services d’ingénierie pour la conception et l’analyse des contraintes du fuselage.
La filiale montréalaise d’Aeroconseil aidera Bombardier en lui fournissant des outils techniques proactifs en vue d’assurer que le développement et l’installation de systèmes d’avions spécifiques soient entièrement conformes aux exigences de certification.
Plus de 30 sous-traitants de Wieland-Davco sont du Québec. Ensemble, ils construisent, à Mirabel (Québec), la zone d’essai intégré des systèmes avion (CIASTA) – site d’essai et de vérification de systèmes qui accueillera un avion d’essai virtuel CSeries. http://www.bombardier.com/fr/bombardier/galerie-de-presse/communiques-de-presse/details?docID=0901260d801321cc

Une interview du patron de Delastek, Claude Lessard :

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-nouvelliste/economie/201009/24/01-4326088-delastek-parmi-les-fournisseurs-de-bombardier.php

Amicalement


_________________
Jullienaline

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Beochien le Ven 24 Sep 2010 - 18:35

Tout le contraire des politiques actuelles de A et surtout B !
C'est bien, surtout si ça marche !
Mais ... surtout si les compétences sont vraiment là, pourquoi pas !

Ce serait une sacrée leçon aux big two !

JPRS

aeroduO5
Whisky Quebec

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par aeroduO5 le Ven 24 Sep 2010 - 18:49

Il n'y a pas de raison.
Les Canadiens et en particulier les Québécois sont très forts en aéronautique.
Ils travaillent beaucoup pour Bombardier mais aussi pour Airbus et Boeing.
Donc les compétences sont là.

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 4 Oct 2010 - 11:04

Bonjour à tous

En marge du salon ERA2010

http://www.eraa.org/publications/regional-international

Une com sur le CSERIES
Très longue (longue à remettr en forme aussi)

Je vous laisse digérer

Je pointe vers la comparaison avec les MD80 dont le Cseries et un remplaçant naturel
Je pointe vers la capacité de couvrir des étapes de 1500 Nm au départ de London City

Et pas mal d'autres choses

Bonne lecture



Bombardier is adamant that the CSeries is on schedule for its 2013 service debut, and believes that this is in part helped by its early testing programme.
Even though the CSeries only came out of its Joint Definition Phase in July the company is already testing parts of the airframe, as it begins the Detail Design Phase. It has constructed a demonstrator of the aft fuselage and the aft pressure bulkhead (which have been connected), presently located at its Plant One facility in Montreal.
Also located at Plant One is a fuselage bar rel tes t i tem, on which the manufacturer plans to further test the viability of the design and the materials by putting it through life cycle testing.
As of August 2010 the demonstrator had already experienced a life cycle – 60,000 cycles – and “anytime now” it will start testing its second life with cer tain damage and stresses added to further validate the integrity. Bombardier expects this test to be complete by November (as it can replicate a single
cycle in about a minute).
Even though for certification requirements only two life cycles are required, Bombardier has said that the
CSeries’ test articles will undergo three concurrent structural lives.
According to Gary Panton, manager engineering & supply chain at Plant One: “We are looking to out-source
some of the CSeries testing. Certainly, for at least one of the major rigs as we just don’t have the facilities here to accommodate it right now.”
He also said that after initial testing, the fuselages will undergo further testing, one for tests on the composites to determine composite life and the other fuselage will be subjected to fatigue testing on its aluminium-lithium construction. He added that the testing team at Plant One, which has two testing
hangars, expects to receive the first test fuselage in mid-2012.
The fuselages for production aircraft will be completed at Plant One (Bombardier has an agreement wi th China’s Shenyang Aircraft Corporation for it to build the aluminium-lithium segments before shipping the fuselage barrels to Quebec). After connecting the rest of the fuselage the part will then be sent to the Mirabel facility for integration into the final assembly line.
Panton added that one of the reasons for having built the demonstrator aft fuselage and aft pressure bulkhead is to learn about manufacturing issues that may arise from its production. “We want to develop the experience and be able to develop the right tooling,” he said.
“We have started testing this early so that we can make final adjustments to the final design from the lessons we are already learning,” he explained.
And this is precisely why the aluminium lithium that Shenyang Aircraft Corporation is using for the fuselage is already in its third generation. “Already the metal is becoming much better and more workable for us,” explained
Panton. The company claims that it is 7% lighter than usual airframe aluminium. “It’s stronger, so you don’t need to use as much. And because of its improved fatigue attributes we can also reduce the thickness of the metal,” added Panton.
The OEM is adamant that choosing a metal for the bulk of the fuselage is the right choice for a regional jet. Panton explained: “Because the CSeries is a much smaller jet than the primarily composite Boeing 787, it has a much higher utilisation rate and therefore spends more time on the ground, which we know means the potential exposure to ground damage is that much higher.
A metal is much easier to repair than composite as it can be patched up, and this has been backed up by our own trade studies.”

Tests, tunnels & rigs

Panton said that Bombardier has already invested around $40-million in its windtunnel models, of which to date
there are 40, and that aerodynamic wind tunnel testing is about 80% complete.
Also, because of its aerodynamic tests the manufacturer is bullish that London City approval will not be a problem.
Panton explained that because of the wing’s large size the aircraft has a greater take-off capability, making LCY an easy-to-use airfield.
At Plant Eight, located at MirabelAirport, it has in place its Complete Integrated Aircraft System Testing Area (CIASTA), which has been handed over to the testing team. It is here that the aircraft’s systems will be tested and further developed.
CIASTA will also play home to a fully fledged flight simulator that is being developed by CAE to allow the test pilots a chance to get to know the aircraft before taking to the sky a full year before first flight. “We are going to use the simulator to do test flights with the test pilots so they can start replicating the tests they’ll be doing in the air. This simulator is due to be in place sometime
next year,” Panton said.
Plant Eight will also play host to the final assembly and delivery hangars for both the CS100 and CS300 variants, and Bombardier believes that if it reaches its goal of a 50% market share that this
would lead to around 3,500 people working on CSeries production at full capacity.


It is also at Mirabel that Pratt & Whitney will manufacture the PW1000G engine.
According to Sebastien Mullot, director, CSeries programme: “It’s nice to have the engine being built just next door. This really gives us dollar value because the unit is such a high value item, it doesn’t have to be transported far.”
Meanwhile at its BAN 2 facility, just north of Pierre Trudeau International airport, it has in place the Reconfigurable Engineering Flight Simulator (REFS).
REFS is already being used to test and further develop the aircraft’s fly-by-wire control system.
Although this simulator is purely designed to test the software and as such is not full representative of the
final CSeries cockpit, it already features a potential production sidestick and autopilot functionality.
Among the novel features is the use of the trim. In its current form the trim control is located on the sidestick, and rather than trimming an aircraft in the traditional sense the pilot uses this to adjust the desired speed while the computer will then figure out what pitch angle is required for the climb, providing
enough throttle is set.
And while this is not yet representative of the finished control system, it is certainly a different take. According to Ben Boehm, vp aircraft programmes, the sidestick design isn’t just for aesthetics.
“The fact that we are now the ‘Nintendo’generation is one of the reasons, but it is also about saving weight. Plus pilot studies have shown that a sidestick is good because it allows the primary flight displays to be easily seen and gives more space in the cockpit. Even hardcore Boeing pilots that love having a yoke say this!”
Bombardier is also optimistic that a 50% share of the market is not far fetched.
Even though right now the manufacturer only has 90 orders Boehm said he was not fazed by any perceived lack of
orders. “We still have three years before the entry into service” and that his real focus is on being able to answer the question of airlines as to when an OEM will finally deliver on time. He says that that time will come when the CSeries enters service in 2013.
Furthermore Boehm says airlines are now learning more about the aircraft, as the performance specifications have been set. He said: “Airlines are starting to do network analysis with the aircraft, and with three years before it enters service there is plenty of time for more orders and more analysis on the benefits of the CSeries.”
And future orders are something the company expects to be a mix between aircraft replacement and new growth.
It predicts (using figures from Airbus, Boeing and its own forecasts) a market for 6,700 jet deliveries in the 100-149 seat market up until 2029, valued at $393 billion. Not to mention what it calls a lack of investment by the industry in this sector.
This is what it perceives will help boost its sales. “We have the only aircraft optimised for this market, not
to mention the only platform with 21st century technology,” added Boehm.
A key number of these deliveries, 3,000,will be for replacement aircraft. And that, according to Bombardier research, there are at present some 2,000 aircraft in service that are over 15 years old.
“The industry has not invested in this segment, and this is obvious because of the high number of MD-80s still flying.
There is no alternative,” added Boehm. It is with the optimisation that the company is really pushing. “The
CSeries will shift cash operating costs because of its efficiency, and because it is designed for this segment,” explained Boehm. And it is because of this optimisation that Boehm says the CSeries can not only offer a 33% reduction in cash operating costs over a 500nm route, but also still have a 1% lower seat cost than a 737-700 over the same route – with fewer seats.
“By using a CSeries aircraft on such a route the aircraft does not need to be at full capacity to make money, as opposed to using a larger aircraft on smaller routes for the lower seat operating costs.
“There are also many routes that are not really economically viable, but with a CSeries there is the possibility to make such routes profitable,” Boehm added.
Jean-Francois Tessier, manager, program planning, development and customer requirements, believes that
the CSeries is particularly appealing in Europe because of its range and low noise. “It will be 20dB under the Stage IV limit. And we’re not predicting this; we can base this on real data from the flight-testing of the engine.
“Moreover the CSeries will be able to operate from London City, and offer twice the range of current aircraft. It really does have the range capability of an Airbus A319, but the take off capability of an Avro RJ. It is unheard of for an aircraft to be able to offer more than a 700nm range from LCY. With a
CSeries 1,500nm is possible, and this means the possibility for example of connecting LCY with Moscow,” added
Tessier.
Overall Tessier is adamant that so soon in the programme’s life having three customers and a spread between
Europe, North America and a leasing company is a good thing. He also said the company planned to sell “quite a
few” to leasing companies because the cabin is “going to be very easy to change in a modular fashion. You can
pretty much do anything with it”.
And given Bombardier’s track record it would certainly be logical to assume the future possibility of a CSeries-derived business jet




_________________
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Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Beochien le Lun 4 Oct 2010 - 11:15

Ben oui Poncho,
L'édition a gagné pour les Pic's et les graphiques ...
Mais remettre les textes en forme, retours à la ligne et paragraphes, c'est devenu un pensum obligatoire dans beaucoup de cas !

Et le transfert d'une simple préparation de post en excel, pratique pour le texte, en cas de multi références, et que j'aimais bien car tout était bien conformé au départ, est devenue plus visible et compliquée pour les éditions simples ... Pour les tableaux, je n'ai pas essayé, ça doit être possible maintenant !

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 4 Oct 2010 - 11:17

Perso j'utilise bétement le bloc note

Là c'est juste un copié-coller d'un PDF très multicolonne vers le bloc note...
Jamais essayé depuis excle


_________________
@avia.poncho

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Beochien le Lun 4 Oct 2010 - 12:51

Bonjour !

Tiens tiens ...
Une petite Cie Suisse, sise à Berne intéressée par le C-Séries : Sky Work !
C'est bon pour le moral ça côté Bombardier !
Décision en octobre possible ??

--------------- Extrait de FlightGlobal -----------

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/10/04/347994/switzerlands-sky-work-cseries-ideal-for-expansion.htm

Switzerland's Sky Work: CSeries ideal for expansion plan
By Victoria Moores


Swiss regional carrier Sky Work Airlines has identified the Bombardier CSeries as the ideal type for a planned expansion, although it is seeking interim capacity before the new twinjet becomes available.Sky Work is a small scheduled and charter airline, based in Berne, which operates a Bombardier Q400 and a Dornier 328 on scheduled services to Barcelona and Rotterdam. It also manages four business jets.On 21 October Sky Work will unveil a new corporate identity and its future fleet plan as it prepares to more than double its network with the ultimate goal of becoming Switzerland's second airline.
-------------
JPRS

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Beochien le Jeu 14 Oct 2010 - 9:23

Bonjour !

Bombardier procède à des essais d'assemblage Aile/ Wingbox, les 2 sont en plastoc, et il faut tout accrocher à un fuselage Al Li en plus!
Méfiants les Canadiens, après les qq déboires du 787 !
L'impression générale, est quand même, qu'ils ne sont pas trop en avance pour une EIS 2013, un peu comme pour le A350, d'ailleurs Wink


---------------Extrait de Flightglobal :-----------

http://www.flightglobal.com/home/default.aspx



Bombardier successfully mates CSeries composite wing, box
Bombardier has mated a portion of the CSeries composite wing to the airliner's composite wing box, and conducted a series of successful tests to mitigate.....


JPRS

jullienaline
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par jullienaline le Sam 4 Déc 2010 - 13:47

Bonjour à tous,

Une perspective venant du Canada concernant l'annonce du NEO.
Cela me donne l'impression d'un psychodrame ! Tout va mal pour Bombardier.
Cela va même jusqu'à suggérer que Bombardier devrait arrêter et vendre le programme. Et peut-être bien à Boeing ?!

Un extrait :

...
Dans un monde idéal, la CSeries prendrait le relais. Mais pour l'instant, c'est tout sauf. Des clients pressentis de la première heure comme Qatar Airways se font tirer l'oreille. Et les transporteurs dont l'intérêt doit se traduire prochainement en commandes fermes - c'est pour bientôt, répète-t-on de téléconférence en téléconférence - ressemblent de plus en plus à des clients imaginaires.

La triste réalité, c'est que cinq ans après le lancement de la CSeries, l'avionneur ne compte que 90 avions en commande ferme, de trois clients. Or, Bombardier s'était fixé pour objectif d'avoir entre 50 et 100 avions en commande de plus de un client avant même de se lancer dans cette aventure de plus de 3 milliards US.

Les dirigeants de Bombardier ont tout fait pour minimiser la riposte d'Airbus d'hier. Cet avionneur européen proposera à ses clients d'équiper ses plus petits jets commerciaux de la famille A320 avec le même moteur sélectionné par Bombardier.

Guy Hachey, président et chef de l'exploitation de Bombardier Aéronautique, a noté avec justesse que si Airbus sélectionne lui aussi le PurePower de Pratt & Whitney, ce moteur en développement ne doit pas être si bancal que cela. Il a aussi insisté sur le fait que les économies en carburant promises par Airbus seront atténuées par la lourdeur du A319, qui devra être modifié pour accommoder des moteurs plus pesants. Encore ici, Guy Hachey a raison.

Toutefois, il est clair que Bombardier servira de cobaye à Airbus. S'il y a des problèmes avec ce moteur, c'est l'avionneur montréalais qui en souffrira le premier. Par ailleurs, Bombardier devra s'assurer de respecter son calendrier, qui prévoit une première livraison en 2013. En préférant changer de moteur plutôt que de redessiner complètement le A320 et ses dérivés A319 et A321, Airbus pourrait offrir des avions plus performants dès 2016. Pour les pressés, l'avantage de Bombardier ne durera que trois ans.

Est-ce que Bombardier convaincra les transporteurs de troquer le A319 d'Airbus pour tester un appareil sans historique qui n'a pas de points en commun avec le reste de leurs parcs d'avions? Tout cela parce qu'il est un peu moins coûteux et gourmand en carburant?

Jusqu'ici, la réponse est tristement non. Et avec une reprise qui ramollit, on ne voit pas quand le vent tournera.

Bombardier n'avait pas le choix de tenter le pari - risqué - de la CSeries. Le marché se déplace vers des appareils de plus en plus grands. Et puis, l'avionneur montréalais ne pouvait plus étirer une autre fois ses jets régionaux. Mais le conseil d'administration a maintenant la responsabilité de se poser des questions difficiles.

Si les commandes n'entrent pas, faut-il faire marche arrière avec la CSeries, compte tenu de ses frais de développement élevés? Est-ce que l'aviation commerciale reste un créneau intéressant pour Bombardier, vu les difficultés financières quasi perpétuelles des compagnies aériennes? Sinon, faudrait-il envisager un retrait de ce secteur, de la même façon que Bombardier a cédé ses activités patrimoniales dans la fabrication de motoneiges et de motomarines?

Dures questions pour dure semaine.
http://lapresseaffaires.cyberpresse.ca/opinions/chroniques/sophie-cousineau/201012/03/01-4348753-cseries-les-clients-imaginaires.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_B40_chroniqueurs_379112_accueil_POS1

Amicalement


_________________
Jullienaline

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Beochien le Sam 4 Déc 2010 - 14:08

Merci Julienaline !

Vu ailleurs que Bombardier va très bien dans ... le rail, mais des activités pas du tout Canadiennes, mais pas de doutes, la cie est solide !

Leur gros PB est un carnet de commandes dans les 200 avions, pour xx séries y compris le "C" et là c'est inquiétant pour eux (La division)!
Une production stagnante de 60-70 avions par an, au niveau de ATR, ce n'est pas glorieux non plus !
Peut être besoin d'un "Partner ou d'un rapprochement"

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-02/bombardier-quarterly-profit-falls-15-percent-on-sluggish-new-plane-sales.html
et
http://www.railwayage.com/breaking-news/bombardier-transportation-orders-at-record-high.html

JPRS

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Sam 4 Déc 2010 - 21:54

Bombardier casse la baraque en ferroviaire, notamment grace à des des produits judicieux et fiable (un beau coup de pied au cul à Alstom...)... et une croissance externe.
Si l'avion est bon, il se vendra... d'autant que les slots disponibles chez les ténors ne sont pas extensibles.

Quant au moteur, on verra... déjà le concept est validé par la concurrence... c'est pas mal non ?


_________________
@avia.poncho

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Beochien le Mar 7 Déc 2010 - 3:19

Bien ...

Ernest Arvaï, Airinsight et Leeham font campagne pour re-monter un peu Bombardier et les C-Séries !
Une campagne à la demande de Bombardier ... probablement, car ça commence à faire beaucoup !

Pas mal de littérature dans ma boite depuis qq temps !

Allez, dans l'ordre d'arrivée, et pour ce que ça vaut !
------------------

http://airinsight.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/will-the-bombardier-cseries-be-on-time/

http://airinsight.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/cseries-beats-neo-a320-737-on-casm-plane-mile-costs/

http://airinsight.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/airinsight-publishes-study-%E2%80%9Cbusiness-case-for-the-bombardier-cseries%E2%80%9D/

http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/

Intéressant, mais un peu dirigé aussi, c'est bon pour le moral de Bombardier !

JPRS

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 7 Déc 2010 - 9:53

Salut Beochien

Je fais un peu d'édition

L'essentiel est dans ce lien

http://airinsight.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/airinsight-publishes-study-%E2%80%9Cbusiness-case-for-the-bombardier-cseries%E2%80%9D/




By their current competitive responses, Airbus and Boeing validate the business case for the CSeries;
The CSeries has a superior cash operating cost advantage over the current A318 and A319, retains significant advantage over the A319neo (the A318 won’t be re-engined) and compares favorably with the A320neo;
The CSeries has a superior cash operating cost advantage over the Boeing 737-600 (none has been sold since 2005) and the 737-700 and compares favorably with the 737-800;
The NEO program provides Airbus with economic advantages over the 737NG;
The CSeries has a superior cash operating cost advantage over the Embraer E190-195 jets;
The 100-149 seat market, while representing only 25% of the total single aisle market forecast by Airbus and Boeing over the next 20 years, is significant and worth pursuing;
Airbus and Boeing are up-gauging airplanes in their future forecasts and will either have to abandon the 100-149 seat market or develop two airplane types to cover the 100-240 seat market identified in their forecasts;
Airbus faces a greater threat from the CSeries than Boeing and has greater incentive to “kill” the CSeries in its infancy;
Boeing is not blind to the threat the CSeries offers to its single-aisle product line now and in the future;
The CSeries in a 150-seat CS500 and the current 130-seat CS300 can replace 175 Boeing 737 Classics and 86 Boeing 717s at Southwest Airlines/AirTran and save Southwest hundreds of millions of dollars before Boeing could respond with a new airplane;
Bombardier should develop the CS500 variant; and
The Pratt & Whitney P1000G Geared Turbo Fan powering the CSeries (and Airbus NEO program) has the ability to further cut fuel consumption dramatically by 2020 (when Boeing currently is talking about a new airplane) and 2027 (when Airbus is currently talking about a new airplane), pre-empting the prospect of a more complete open rotor engine concept.

Bon n'ayant pas 595$ pour acheter le rapport (Wink ) on va se contenter de ce teasing en rappelant :

a) hypothèses détaillées inconnues... et notamment le prix du fioul et de config
b) la figure présentée illustre une mission de 500 Nm
c) les coûts d'opération doivent être complétés par les coûts liés à la charge de l'achat ou de la location de l'avion...

Je note néanmoins

Cout comparable du SS100 et de l'E190

Cout au km identique etre l'A320 et le 737-800W, la différence se faisant sur le nb de places assises

Pour le reste à voir




_________________
@avia.poncho

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Beochien le Mar 7 Déc 2010 - 12:01

Merci Poncho !

Oui, le A321 absent, du rapport (Pas l'objet) un peu dommage !
bien l'essentiel de l'argumentatio des 320-737 est zappée, en limitant à 500 nm la comparaison !
Un peu biaisé tout ça, comme le discours de JL d'ailleurs !
Juste pour lire ce que reprend FG today ! Bof ..

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/12/07/350463/airbus-outlines-expected-market-impact-of-a320neo.html

Bien les meilleurs indicateurs seront les cdes, savoir qui commande quoi et pourquoi !
Et John Leahy ferait bien d'en montrer qq unes avant de danser sur la table et d'enterrer le C Séries !

Bon, j'en ai parlé, c'est peut être un plan pour amuser la galerie et distraire Boeing !
Surtout que B ne mette pas trop de RD sur les Narrowbody, en 2011, pour commencer !

JPRS


aeroduO5
Whisky Quebec

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par aeroduO5 le Mar 7 Déc 2010 - 21:58

Bonjour à tous

Ce graphique est très intéressant.
C'est vrai que ça se limite à 500nm.
Mais cette longueur de route est très fréquente, en particulier en Europe.
Donc ça correspond à une réalité quand même.

jullienaline
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par jullienaline le Mer 8 Déc 2010 - 14:51



_________________
Jullienaline

Vector
Whisky Quebec

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Vector le Mer 8 Déc 2010 - 15:28

Bonjour Julienaline,
Vous féliciterez leur traducteur : "Bombardier est le troisième constructeur aéronautique au monde, après Airbus et Boeing, et le leader régional des avions à réaction et à turbopropulseurs transportant de 50 à 100 passagers." J'espère que tout le monde a compris que Bombardier n'est pas (seulement) le leader régional des avions à réaction et à turbopropulseurs de 50 à 100 passagers, mais plutôt le leader des avions de transport régional de 50 à 100 passagers. Accessoirement, c'est aussi le leader régional puisqu'il n'y en a pas d'autre.
Rasta appréciera !

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Beochien le Mer 8 Déc 2010 - 15:56

Bonjour Vector !
Et Embraer, ou en est il dans le classement !
Pas trés loin de bombardier, à mon avis !

JPRS

aeroduO5
Whisky Quebec

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par aeroduO5 le Sam 29 Jan 2011 - 14:31

Une analyse très intéressante sur le CSeries et l'A320neo.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/01/28/352440/can-cseries-emerge-from-neos-shadow.html

En bref rien d'inquiétant pour le CSeries.
Virgin America a commandé des A320neo mais ça n'obère pas dees chances de succès du CSeries.
Tous les regards se portent vers Delta qui pourrait commander les 2.

Quant à Bombardier ils sont confiants et je les comprends.
Pour le moment ils ont des commandes pour voir venir et ils travaillent pour être à peu près à l'heure.

Je pense vraiment que Delta va commander les 2 avec des CS100 et 300 et des A320neo et A321neo. Le tout avec le GTF, ça donnerait une jolie flotte moyen-courrier.

aubla
Whisky Quebec

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par aubla le Mar 8 Mar 2011 - 7:15

Bonjour

Le 1er vol du C-Séries glisse de 3 mois
et devrait avoir lieu en Septembre ou Octobre 2012.
La certification et la 1ère livraison restent prévues pour 2013.

le lien : http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/03/07/354016/sources-cseries-first-flight-slips-three-months.html

Bonne journée
Cordialement
aubla

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Bombardier C-Séries (partie 1)

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 10 Mai 2011 - 15:33

Bonjour,

Que se passerait-il si le CSeries devenait un 3+3 au lieu d'un 2+3


Quid d'un Thompson-staggered CS Series ...

Soit le CS100 passant de 110 PAX (22*(2+3) @ 32") à 120 PAX (20 *(3+3) Thomson @34-35")
Soit le CS300 passant de 135 PAX (27*(2+3) @ 32") à 150 PAX (25 *(3+3) Thomson @34-35")

Une piste pour Bombardier pour certains appels d'offres ? (Delta ?)
Le moyen d'attendre le CS500 ?
Le moyen de répondre à A32X NEO ?
Quid de l'impact sur le nombre d'issues de secours ? De même la config 2+3 HD du CS300 était prévu aux alentours de 145 PAX.




_________________
@avia.poncho

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