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Futurs lanceurs U.S

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vonrichthoffen

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par vonrichthoffen le Lun 11 Mai 2009 - 14:15

Un bémol à mettre sur tout ce qui précède:

http://www.techno-science.net/?onglet=news&news=6599

Ces deux liens renvoient aux alternatives possibles:

http://www.directlauncher.com/

http://www.launchcomplexmodels.com/Direct/documents/DIRECT_ISDC2008.pps

Tout cela dans un contexte plutôt marqué par la concurrence, les japonais maintenant toujours un R&D sur les lanceurs réutilisables et les chinois pointant leur nez avec le lanceur Longue Marche 5 D (on a échappé au prolétaire tout rouge), lanceur réallumable de la classe d'Ariane 5.

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 11 Mai 2009 - 14:57

Merci cher Baron pour "DIRECT"

Un programme de lanceur spatial "open source "? et participatif !

Démarche plus qu'intéressante
Trop beau pour être vrai ?

Transformer le bidon de STS en support moteur et charge utile n'est peut-être pas si trivial que ça... mais certainement pas hors de portée

Bonne journée

TRIM2

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par TRIM2 le Mar 12 Mai 2009 - 12:05

Bonjour Vonrichtoffen

Je ne vois aucun bémol dans ces liens.

Je suis au courant depuis longtemps des luttes inter constructeurs U.S et des nombreux projets abandonnés, dont certains aberrants.

Il est notoire que des 'solutions multiples ont été proposées pendant la précedente administratio, émanant de Boeing et de Lookheed Martin entre autres.

De nmbreuses occasions de progresser ont été rejetées par cette meme administration, aboutissant sur le 'gap' de 5 ans sans pouvoir aller sur ISS sans Soyouz / Progress.

Les 'boosters' a poudre sont peu onéreux, 'irrécupérables' qoiqu'on en dise et de plus provoqunt d'enormes vibrations jusqu'a leur séparation.

C'est du 'cheap'

Le jupiter est une navette sans navette, et avec la capsule équipage en haut, ce qui permet, grace à un système russe d'ejecter cette capsule si cela 'péte' en dessous au décollage.

Un étage de plus pour le 'lourd'


Cela a été proposé en 2007......c'est du réchauffé.


De plus il est aberrant d'utiliser quasiment le meme lanceur,non récupérable, une fois avec équipage, une fois avec charge.

Ares V peut grimper en LEO plus de 150 Tonnes (177 T).

Ares I a une payload de 25 Tonnes., c'est suffisaant


Et ce n'est pas un programme enthousiasmant.


Quant aux projets chinois et même russes, je comptais en parler dans un sujet séparé. Les chinois ont un programme lisse et cohérent.

La vérité est que les U.S n'ont pas les moyens d'aller sur la Lune d'une manière permanente, et encore moins sur Mars.

Donc, j'arrete mes sujets 'Lanceurs' et passe la main à qui la voudra.

Cordialement.

TRIM2


Dernière édition par TRIM2 le Mar 12 Mai 2009 - 14:42, édité 1 fois (Raison : additifs)

TRIM2

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par TRIM2 le Mer 13 Mai 2009 - 13:00

Pas de réponse, Cher Vonrichtoffen ?

Si vous avez lu les 16 pages du projet' DIRECT', dont j'ai la version initiale de 2007 + les updates, imprimées..vous aurez remarqué les 'impossibilités de ce programme de 'récup', sans frais supplémentaires.

Sinon, inutile de poster ce lien qui ne sera lu par presque personne.

Je comptais venir sur ces discordances dans le SUJET 'Futurs lanceus U.S.

Vous avez mis ce lien ( inutile ) et introduit les chinois...

Ce qui fait que je m'arrete de parler de lanceurs..

Merci à vous.

TRIM2

vonrichthoffen

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par vonrichthoffen le Mer 13 Mai 2009 - 18:06

Mes excuses, citoyen TRIM 2, mais je dois aller au cyber pour me connecter, et il y a des jours le débit rame lamentablement, surtout lorsque beaucoup de monde communique sur MSN vers l'Europe.

Je ne consteste absolument pas votre expertise, je me contente juste de mettre un si bémol à la clé du futur de ces engins. Je ne remets pas non plus en cause leur faisabilité du point de vue technique. Mais il se trouve que la NASA s'est déja fourvoyée dans une voie qui n'était pas la bonne avec le Shuttle, et il y a au sein même de la NASA des voix qui s'élèvent pour dire que les choix techniques servent d'abord à préserver les emplois, et qu'il y aurait peut-être d'autres voies à explorer.
Je suis désolé de vous avoir interrompu, surtout si ça a cassé votre envie de communiquer.

TRIM2

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par TRIM2 le Mer 13 Mai 2009 - 18:11

Merci, Vonrichthoffen

TRIM2

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 17 Aoû 2009 - 12:03

Bonjour Vonrichthoffen, bonjour Trim2, bonjour à tous

Tiré de la blogosphère :

Alors qu'Arès I doit prochainement être testé en vol (fin septembre il me semble).
Où reparle des alternatives à Ares V.


Outre Falcon9Heavy, on retrouve la trace du "Space Shuttle-derived Heavy Lift Vehicle (HLV)" dont il me semble qu'on a parlé ici.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2009/08/expect-those-options-or-even-s.html


Expect Augustine's options to be ignored by Obama

The blogosphere is all abuzz with the outcome of yesterday's final public meeting of the Review of US human space flight plans committee

Hyperbola, despite being in Washington DC this week and the US for the past two and a bit weeks, has been somewhat hampered in its efforts to monitor proceedings because of the EAA Airventure airshow in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, the AIAA 45th Joint Propulsion Conference in Denver and the AUVSI Unmanned Systems North America 2009 conference, right here in the USA's capitol city (and some tourism around Utah and DC's national mall)

Despite that I found the time to write an analysis piece for our print title Flight International which you can find here. I was interested in how NASA was re-examining Constellation and what the committee's comments were about the "program of record", to use the technical term, when the Ares rocket work was presented at the Hunstville, Alabama meeting on 29 July

Looking at the media coverage now the final public meeting has taken place, Hyperbola's reacton is, but is that news, we knew that already? We knew that Constellation, in its current form, was unaffordable, we knew back in June that opting for Delta IV was not a cheap option, but I would have to say that the best headline prize goes to the RocketsAndSuch blog

Examining the realistic options we know that Atlas V is ruled out because of its Russian engines, and Augustine panel member and former Boeing Space Shuttle programme director Bo Bejmuk thinks its margins are to close to call

Delta IV could do the job apparently but you have to man rate it especially the RS-68 engines, and so why not use the Falcon 9 Heavy, it and its Merlin engines have been designed with NASA man rating standards from the get go?

Some panel members do indeed think that "commercial" has some sort of magic wand to do it cheaper and faster but in the Aerospace Corporation's view, people who have actually looked at the numbers, that is not so - and Hyperbola agrees

If you choose a Delta or Falcon then you have to redesign Orion for those launchers, unless you want to start again? Why not use SpaceX's Dragon you might ask, well that has not been designed to be lunar capable and until now the intention is to go back to the Moon

This all might sound like an argument for Ares I but it is in fact an argument about why the alternatives are not as great as their proponents claim. And as Bejmuk said at the 29 July meeting, and I qouted in the analysis article referred to above, if the US is going to change from Ares to something else it is got to be something "overwhelmingly better"
The blogosphere focuses greatly on a rocket's LEO payload capability and perceived costs and safety levels. But rarely do I see issues of workforce and infrastructure and industrial base tackled

The reality is that what is on the ground is as important to the decision makers as what goes up into the air. Obama's decisions are more likely to be shaped by the impact his decision will have on the workforce and industrial base than any heroic notions of Mars or Moon return

For this reason I suspect that Ares V will be replaced by the Shuttle derived-Heavy Lift Vehicle that in turn will take the place of Space Shuttle, which will have its retirement stretched out, and Ares I will continue in the background as a crew transport to LEO for an Earth Orbit Rendezvous architecture for beyond-LEO missions with a beyond-LEO capable Orion. In the meantime Russian transport will be purchased. Commercial will just do cargo, if it achieves that

What of course happens five years down the road when Congress has had the time to meddle further with future budgets is anyone's guess but I suspect that for the remainder of Obama's first term the plan I have sketched out will be followed

For those of you who say, oh but the Augustine panel's options don't say that, I say, do you honestly believe that Obama will not simply use bits of that report to justify his own plan that reflects his political priorities?

I finish this post with one comment on Mars as a goal. If the red planet becomes the new goal, Constellation will become a technology programme to develop the systems to get there and in the years to come that technology programme will be whittled away, Shuttle will retire, the US will buy Russian transport until International Space Station ends and then there will be no US manned spaceflight programme


Si l'approvisionnement en cargo d'ISS a été attribué au secteur commercial pour la part US, rien de similaire pour la partie vols habités.
Gros enjeu...

Bonne fin de journée à tous.


_________________
@avia.poncho

87_Arnac

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par 87_Arnac le Mer 23 Sep 2009 - 20:40

Bonjour

Serais-je seul ici ?
Quoiqu'il en soit !
Voici ce qui se dit sur Constellation

Ares 1 work continues despite cancellation threat
By John Croft
Rocket builder Alliant Techsystems (ATK) says work is proceeding on several tests aimed at proving out its first stage for the NASA Ares 1 low-Earth orbit (LEO) launch vehicle despite the very real possibility the programme may be cancelled.

Of the seven alternatives to existing human space flight plans developed over the summer by a 10-member review panel assembled by the Obama administration and chaired by former Lockheed Martin chief executive Norm Augustine, only one includes keeping the Ares 1. The committee released its executive summary in August and plans to issue its 100-page final report by the end of September, after which the White House could take action.

"The current programme as it is being pursued is not executable," said Augustine to members of the House Science and Technology subcommittee on 15 September during a hearing on the committee's findings. "It's a path that will not lead to a useful, safe exploration programme due to the mismatch between funds and path." Augustine said NASA would need at least $3 billion more per year in its $18 billion annual budget to adequately fund the Constellation programme. The agency so far has spent $7.7 billion on the various components of Constellation.

Ares 1 work continues despite cancellation threat
By John Croft
Rocket builder Alliant Techsystems (ATK) says work is proceeding on several tests aimed at proving out its first stage for the NASA Ares 1 low-Earth orbit (LEO) launch vehicle despite the very real possibility the programme may be cancelled.

Of the seven alternatives to existing human space flight plans developed over the summer by a 10-member review panel assembled by the Obama administration and chaired by former Lockheed Martin chief executive Norm Augustine, only one includes keeping the Ares 1. The committee released its executive summary in August and plans to issue its 100-page final report by the end of September, after which the White House could take action.

"The current programme as it is being pursued is not executable," said Augustine to members of the House Science and Technology subcommittee on 15 September during a hearing on the committee's findings. "It's a path that will not lead to a useful, safe exploration programme due to the mismatch between funds and path." Augustine said NASA would need at least $3 billion more per year in its $18 billion annual budget to adequately fund the Constellation programme. The agency so far has spent $7.7 billion on the various components of Constellation.





Ce rapport Augustine arrive bientôt ! Quelques bonnes feuilles à lire.
Et fait déj réagir la NASA.

Test du moteur du ARes en attendant ! Succès.

Bon appétit

87_Arnac

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par 87_Arnac le Lun 5 Oct 2009 - 11:06

Je poursuis et je m'entête !

La NASA est actuellement sur le grill

En attendant le rapport Augustine.
Elle est la cible de charge en provenance de divers horizons...

Et notamment sur flightglobal on trouve

NASA design reviews should not have been approved says report
By Rob Coppinger
The US Government Accountability Office says NASA should not have completed preliminary design reviews for its Constellation programme's vehicles because it did not have the data to allow it to meet planned delivery dates with confidence.

Neither the Orion crew exploration vehicle nor its Ares I crew launch vehicle should have progressed, says the GAO. In its September report on Constellation the GAO highlights NASA's decision to delay Orion's PDR from mid-2008 to third quarter 2009 and the fact that it closed the Ares I review, while deferring resolution of the launcher's thrust oscillation issue until the Constellation programme design milestone in March 2010.

Constellation has already slipped its first crew flight from September 2014 to March 2015 and has 192 identified risks that represent an additional $2.4 billion or more in costs to resolve. One such risk is thrust oscillation, which threatened to violently shake Orion and its crew on ascent.

NASA disagrees with GAO and says: "The Constellation programme and project preliminary design reviews fully comply with the NASA guidance. In every case, the review was declared successful by...independent reviewers."

Yet NASA's Constellation programme may never reach its own March 2010 milestone. Later this month President Barack Obama's review of US human spaceflight plans committee is expected to submit its full report on which NASA administrator Charles Bolden will base a new human spaceflight policy proposal by the end of the year



D'autres liens pour bien voir le contexte

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2009/10/gao-says-nasa-should-never-hav.html

http://hobbyspace.com/nucleus/?itemid=15541

La stratégie de la NASA est donc bien en cause et notamment la gestion des risques et des fonds...

Qu'en pensez-vous ?

Salutations

87_Arnac

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par 87_Arnac le Lun 19 Oct 2009 - 16:48

Allo Houston ?

Bonjour à tous

Tiré d'une source familière quelques petits éléments complémentaires sur les lanceurs lourds...


Bolden's "heavy lift vehicle": Ares V and HLV battle it out


On Monday 12 October Flightglobal reported that NASA administrator Charles Bolden said that a heavy lift vehicle was necessary for exploration and that a vehicle was being costed

Talking to sources within the Ares V project and close to the Space Shuttle programme office's Shuttle-derived Heavy Lift Vehicle team it has become clear that while Bolden' choice of words suggested a single vehicle concept was under study, the reality is that HLV is still in the running

Bolden's comments on what he thinks is needed, a heavy lift rocket for exploration and commercial vehicles for LEO access within a constrained budget (Bolden mentioned that he would need to organise "overguides", additional funding requests for the FY2011 budget, for the likes of the Orbiting Carbon Observatory, a replacement for which - after its launch failure - has not been budgeted for), pointed to a decision by the administrator that the Augustine panel's second option and its designated "Ares V lite" heavy lift vehicle had been selected

On Friday 16 October at the International Astronautical Congress in Daejeon, Korea NASA's Charles Cockrell, associate director at the agency's Langley Research Center's systems engineering directorate, said that the Ares V project office was working on "trade studies of Ares V variants to feed that [human spaceflight policy] decision making process"

However sources close to the HLV team tell Hyperbola that "Yes the shuttle derived side mount, HLV, is one of the heavy lift launch vehicles being considered"

As Bolden is an ex-Shuttle astronaut it is perhaps not surprising that he might be open to the Shuttle programme office's ideas and so this blog asks the question, will anything of Constellation survive this review?

Blog Hperbola chez Flight

Rude bataille entre le HLV et Ares V.
Néanmoins le lanceur lourd semble acquis, le secteur commercial ne pouvant s'en charger.

Ce fameux rapport Augustine encore et toujours

Incidemment, et pour les curieux un petit lien pour un événement évoqué dans ce blog :
Echec Mission TAURUS/OcO http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/369037main_OCOexecutivesummary_71609.pdf

Bon courage

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Dim 25 Oct 2009 - 22:27

Bonsoir à tous

quelques mots pour rappeler que cette semaine normalement aura lieu le premier vol d'ARES I-X

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/ares/flighttests/aresIx/index.html


Un petit vers un autre forum actif spécialisé dans l'espace...

http://astronautique.actifforum.com/usa-f8/nouvelles-du-vol-d-essai-ares-i-x-lancement-le-27-10-2009-t5077-495.htm

Comme d'habitude pas mal de tapage dans les médias, même chez nous.

Intéressant aussi la conjonction avec le rapport Augustine

Bonne soirée


_________________
@avia.poncho

jullienaline
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par jullienaline le Mar 27 Oct 2009 - 21:30

Bonsoir chers tous,

Les mésaventures de ARES 1-X...

Les incroyables mésaventures de la fusée Ares 1-X

L'avenir du vol spatial habité américain se jouera bientôt au Centre spatial Kennedy, en Floride. La Nasa va procéder au premier vol d'essai de son nouveau lanceur Ares I-X, destiné à propulser le vaisseau Orion. Cette capsule devrait remplacer les navettes spatiales, avec un léger retard : les "shuttles" seront retirées du service deux à quatre ans avant l'entrée en service d'Orion, prévue en 2015. D'abord programmé mardi 27 octobre, le tir devrait avoir lieu mercredi 28 octobre.

De multiples mésaventures

Peu après 12 heures (heure de Paris), les bras métalliques qui stabilisent la fusée sur son pas de tir sont retirés, en vue du tir, et tout se déroule comme prévu. Mais la Nasa annonce plusieurs reports successifs. À 14 h 15, l'équipe entame les dernières procédures, notamment pour retirer les protections sur le lanceur. Le feu vert définitif du service météo est donné à 14 h 16, pour trente minutes. À 14 h 20, Nasa TV montre que l'une des protections installées sur le sommet du lanceur n'a pas été retirée comme prévu : elle semble accrochée sur les instruments fixés à cet endroit. Le compte à rebours final (4 minutes) n'avait pas encore été lancé. À 14 h 25, la protection est retirée avec succès, le tir ayant été repoussé à 14 h 44. Des applaudissements résonnent dans le centre spatial : cette mésaventure aurait pu très mal se terminer.

À 14 h 34, une nouvelle arrive : un cargo est entré dans la zone de danger autour du centre spatial, bloquant le lancement. Il est trop près du centre spatial et pourrait subir des dégâts si le lancement se passait mal. "No go !" (pas de lancement) déclare immédiatement un responsable de la Nasa. Une première estimation effraie les membres de l'équipe : il faudrait 90 minutes au navire pour quitter la zone dangereuse. À 14 h 43, à la radio, les voix s'échauffent, réclamant une résolution plus rapide du problème. Le lancement est "replanifié" à 14 h 45, mais le compte à rebours est remis à zéro avant achèvement, un voyant rouge ayant été envoyé par le service météo. Un nouveau décompte est prévu.
À 15 h 05, un responsable de la Nasa confie sur Nasa TV qu'il espère un lancement "dans l'heure". À 15 h 09, Nasa TV annonce un lancement reprogrammé à 15 h 54. À 15 h 50, Nasa TV annonce un lancement une nouvelle fois reprogrammé à 16 h 04, en raison du vent et des nuages. À 15 h 57, la responsable météo déçoit le reste de l'équipe en annonçant un feu rouge météo, sauf évolution de la situation dans les prochaines minutes. Le tir est décalé à 16 h 14. À 16 h 08, le service météo annonce un feu vert pour le vent, mais reste réservé pour d'autres paramètres. Lancement décalé à 16 h 19. Finalement, à 16 h 19, l'équipe, dépitée, décide d'arrêter les essais de lancement pour la journée.

60 % de chances pour une météo favorable mercredi

Le lancement est reporté à mercredi 28 octobre et bénéficie ainsi de prévisions météo plus optimistes (60 % de chances pour des conditions favorables). Si le tir devait être à nouveau reporté, la Nasa devrait attendre novembre pour éviter tout conflit avec le lancement d'Atlantis.

Le tir doit avoir lieu depuis le pas de tir 39B du Centre spatial Kennedy, près de cap Canaveral. Le pas de tir 39A est actuellement occupé par la navette spatiale Atlantis, qui doit décoller le 16 novembre vers l'ISS et qui regardera décoller son successeur Ares I-X. Tout un symbole. Interrogée sur Twitter par un internaute inquiet, la Nasa a expliqué qu'il y a un risque "très faible" pour la navette en cas de mauvais déroulement du lancement d'Ares I-X. Durant le vol d'essai, seul le premier étage de la fusée sera testé, puis récupéré, le deuxième étage et la charge utile n'étant que des répliques. Il s'agit pour l'agence spatiale américaine de s'assurer de la fiabilité de la première phase du vol (2 min 30), grâce à plus de 700 capteurs répartis sur les 99,6 mètres du lanceur. Quatre tests auront lieu d'ici 2012.

Ce vol expérimental est vital pour la Nasa : non seulement elle teste son nouveau lanceur, réalisé avec Boeing et Pratt & Whitney notamment, mais elle défend aussi son programme de vol habité. Une commission d'experts réunie à la demande du président Barack Obama doit statuer sur l'avenir du programme Constellation, créé par George W. Bush en 2004, et dont les financements se sont révélés insuffisants. L'objectif du programme est de renvoyer des Américains sur la Lune en 2020 et d'aller plus tard sur Mars. La commission, par la voix de son président Norman Augustine (ancien président de Lockheed Martin), a récemment estimé qu'Ares 1 ne serait pas assez puissant pour remplir son rôle dans le programme.
http://www.lepoint.fr/actualites-technologie-internet/2009-10-27/espace-nasa-les-incroyables-mesaventures-de-la-fusee-ares-1-x/1387/0/389323

Amicalement


_________________
Jullienaline

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mer 28 Oct 2009 - 10:02

Bonjour Jullienaline

Pour aujourd'hui


CAP CANAVERAL, Floride, 27 octobre (Reuters) - La Nasa tentera à nouveau mercredi de lancer sa fusée expérimentale Arès 1-X, après avoir annulé le tir mardi en raison du mauvais temps qui régnait au centre spatial Kennedy.

La mise à feu doit désormais avoir lieu à 08h00 locales (12h00 GMT). Un ciel couvert a empêché le lancement mardi, et la seule éclaircie n'a pu être mise à profit, un bateau s'étant aventuré dans la zone dangereuse située autour du pas de tir.

Le lanceur expérimental consiste en un assemblage de propulseurs auxiliaires de la navette spatiale (les "boosters") combiné à un deuxième étage factice, le tout surmonté d'une capsule Orion vide.

A terme, la fusée Arès devra emmener des astronautes vers l'ISS, en remplacement de la navette, qui sera retirée fin 2010. Elle est le premier lanceur mis au point par la Nasa depuis la navette, conçue à la fin des années 1970 et dont deux exemplaires sur cinq ont été perdus avec leurs équipages en un peu plus de 120 missions spatiales.

La Nasa espère qu'Arès permettra un retour de l'homme sur la Lune dans les années 2020, mais de nombreux aspects de ce programme doivent encore être validés. (Irene Klotz, version française Gregory Schwartz)


C'est ici http://www.aerocontact.com/actualite_aeronautique_spatiale/ac-la-nasa-tentera-a-nouveau-mercredi-de-lancer-ares-1-x~09031.html


Au passage c'est en direct sur le site de la NASA ... (video et tout le tralala)


Bonne lecture


_________________
@avia.poncho

87_Arnac

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par 87_Arnac le Mer 28 Oct 2009 - 10:36

Bonjour (bis) à tous

J’ai effectivement essayé de suivre le lancement hier… en vain

Une petite réflexion pris sur le blog On Space d’aviation week, sur le timing du lancement.

Ares I-X Wrong Launch at Wrong Time
Posted by Jeffrey Manber at 10/27/2009 9:12 PM CDT

NASA will try for a second time to launch the Ares 1-X and that's a shame. In my view, no good can come from the launch. No matter the technical results, we run the risk of making the wrong policy decision by conducting the launch in the midst of the White House deliberations on the Augustine Commission report.

If the suborbital test launch is successful, supporters of the multi-billion dollar program will tout the eventual success of the entire program as a done deal. And that of course is wrong. Momentum for continuation will only increase. After all, we've already spent almost half a billion dollars say supporters...how can we cancel now?

To make those calls based on one test flight is wrong. After all, the Augustine Commission found the Ares program to be in good shape for a test program--what was questioned was the need for the rocket given the expected first launch date of 2017, just when the space station is in its final years in orbit.

But the opposite possibility also troubles me. If the test launch is a failure, then the program critics will pounce. Never mind it is a test launch and many first vehicles meet an unexpected end.

Again, I don't want to see policy made because of a single test launch.

No, it is a fool's errand for NASA to conduct this launch at this time. It may well lead to a knee jerk reaction based on the technical results of a test mission.

Wrong launch. Good engineers. Good product. Bad timing.


Disons que la NASA semble courir un petit risque avec ce vol au moment où le programme est sur la selette.
Qu’a-t’elle à y gagner : mettre tout le monde devant le fait accompli ?
Qu’a-t-elle à y perdre ? Beaucoup (tout ?)

Vous trouverez ici le descriptif de l’équipement du vol Ares I-x : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ares_I-X

Où l’on voit que dans la réalité il s’agit d’un SRB existant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_Solid_Rocket_Booster#Thrust_vector_control) avec une charge factice au dessus… y compris le fameux 5 ème Segment qui différentie les SRB actuel du moteur principal d’Ares I.

Prochain vol en 2013-2014 pour Ares I-Y… 1 er étage complet, 2nd étage non fonctionnel…

La méthode des petits pas

Merci

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Jeu 3 Déc 2009 - 22:30

Bonsoir à tous

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/Safety120309.xml&headline=Safety Seen Favoring Ares I &channel=space



Safety Seen Favoring Ares I

Dec 3, 2009



By Frank Morring, Jr.


Advocates of a switch from NASA's Ares I crew launch vehicle to a human-rated commercial launcher for post-shuttle missions to the International Space Station found little comfort in testimony before a key House subcommittee Dec. 2.

Witnesses ranging from the agency's chief safety officer to a flight-crew veteran of the Gemini and Apollo programs testified that there are no safety gains from a switch to commercial launches for NASA crews, and several potential problems. The testimony seemed to resonate with many members of the House Science space and aeronautics subcommittee.

"Safety of our crews simply has to be at the heart of everything NASA does in space," said Rep. Ralph Hall of Texas, the ranking Republican on the panel.

"Based on what we've heard this morning, I see no justification for a change in direction on safety-related grounds," said Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), the panel chair. "Instead, in fact, I'm impressed with the steps that have been taken to fuse safety into Constellation."

Bryan O'Connor, NASA's chief of safety and mission assurance and a two-time shuttle astronaut, testified that the work that went into integrating safety into the design of the Ares I and the Orion crew exploration vehicle under development by the Constellation Program underscores the complexity of human-rating a commercial vehicle.

"The job of validating the right set of requirements for a new crewed flight system is not a simple cookie-cutter or checklist task," O'Connor said. "Nor is it expected to be a one-time task."

Based on his long experience with human-rated launch vehicles, starting with the Gemini program's Titan II launchers and continuing through the Saturn V that sent him to lunar orbit on Apollo 10, astronaut Tom Stafford criticized the lack of attention to crew safety represented in the final report of the human spaceflight review committee headed by former Lockheed Martin CEO Norman Augustine. "It may be that the difficulty of conducting spaceflight operations safely and reliably is not fully appreciated by those who are recommending the cancellation of the present system being developed by NASA, and the early adaptation of the presently nonexistent commercial government crew delivery alternatives," Stafford testified.

Representing the opposing view was Bretton Alexander, president of the Commercial Spaceflight Federation, who argued that the Ares I/Orion stack is intended to support lunar exploration, and is overbuilt for the ISS mission. A lighter capsule, launched on a commercial vehicle like the Atlas V or SpaceX Falcon 9 probably could be ready within three years, he said - versus the minimum six-year gap expected between the end of shuttle operations and the beginning of Ares I flights.

"Commercial crew is complementary, not competitive with NASA's exploration program," Alexander said. "NASA should once again be focused on exploration beyond low Earth orbit, and turn over to the private sector the repetitive tasks of resupplying the station."



Questions sur la pertinence des vols habités commerciaux pour alimenter l'ISS.
Ares I contre Atlas V ou Falcon X notamment....

Sacré débat

Qu'en pensez vous ?

Bonne soirée


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aubla
Whisky Quebec

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par aubla le Ven 4 Déc 2009 - 8:47

Je serais plutôt d'accord avec la position de Bretton Alexander :
the Ares I/Orion stack is intended to support lunar exploration, and is overbuilt for the ISS mission. A lighter capsule, launched on a commercial vehicle like the Atlas V or SpaceX Falcon 9 probably could be ready within three years,
le ravitaillement de l'ISS et le renouvellement des équipages ne nécessite pas la mise en oeuvre de nouvelles technologies et doit pouvoir s'effectuer
de manière sécuritaire et économiquement avec des vecteurs tels ATLAS V ou SpaceX Falcon 9 équipés d'une capsule adéquate.
Avec ARES I/Orion, impossible de maîtriser les coûts.

Avis d'un quasi béotien du domaine.

Bonne journée

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Ven 4 Déc 2009 - 9:00

Merci aubla !

Chacun cherche de toute manière à tirer la couverture à lui !

Dans ce contexte quel rôle peut jouer l'ESA avec Soyuz ? Celui d'une seconde source pour l'ISS (même si ce n'est qu'avec le même matériel que les russes ?)

Au passage qu'elle est la durée d'un mission Soyuz / ISS à la montée et à la descente ? Justifie t'elle toujours la présence du module "habitable" ?

Autre question ? quelle capacité prévoir pour les A/R ISS ?

Bonne journée


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Ven 4 Déc 2009 - 10:04

Rebonjour


Une synthèse intéressante avec pas mal de lien vers des blogs

Pas très flatteur pour la commission qui a procédé aux auditions

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2009/12/so-now-we-know-why-atlas-was-s.html


So now we know why Atlas was shunned by Augustine
By Rob Coppinger on December 3, 2009 5:16 PM | Permalink | Comments (0) | TrackBacks (0)
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It did seem odd that despite there being two operational Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicles, namely Atlas and Delta, that only the Delta IV was being considered during the Norman Augustine led review of US human spaceflight plans

And then yesterday at the House of Representatives' subcommittee on space and aeronautics we hear Jospeh Fragola, Valador Inc vice president and Augustine committee engineering analysis support team member, state that the United Launch Alliance Atlas 431 (watch an Atlas V 431 launch here) had been studied by the Orbital Space Plane programme and been rejected. Three solid rockets strapped to a liquid first stage was deemed a bad idea apparently

Have they not seen the Ares V Lite design? A liquid core with two solid rocket boosters
This blog agrees with others that championing the Ares I first-stage, that is using an untested five-segment evolution of the Space Shuttle four-segment solid rocket booster (SRB), while questioning the reliability of an Atlas SRB that has never failed in the full knowledge that the Augustine report recommended a crewed Ares V Lite is a bit odd

And this blog had thought that the issue with Atlas was its Russian first-stage engines. And maybe it really is

The turn of events at the hearing has given rise to the view that the Congressional panel had already decided what they wanted to think and that Ares I was the better option

Hyperbola was struck by the apparent lack of knowledge of a number of the subcommittee members, when they should have been the experts as far as Congress was concerned. While Californian Congressman Dana Rohrabacher was the only subcommittee member to push on the EELV alternative his questions were easy for the anti-EELV witnesses to bat away

Meanwhile NASA's Wayne Hale takes a swing at the commercial crowd in his latest blog posting

Hyperbola had concluded recently that Ares I's days really were numbered but having watched the subcommittee, if this group has any real sway then Ares I really might not be dead after all

Atlas V écarté de l'analyse EELV.... à cause de sa motorisation russe ?


Les autres liens :

http://www.nasa.gov/offices/hsf/home/index.html

http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/396093main_HSF_Cmte_FinalReport.pdf

http://www.transterrestrial.com/?p=23342


En bonus




Bonne lecture !


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 8 Déc 2009 - 8:53

Bonjour à tous

Un lien "sec"

Pas encore eu le temps de le digérer... si quelqu'un veut se lancer avant moi c'est avec grand plaisir

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2009/12/augustines-mystery-booster.html


What could Norman Augustine's mystery booster be?
By Rob Coppinger on December 8, 2009 5:03 AM | Permalink | Comments (0) | TrackBacks (0)
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Much has been made of the support Norman Augustine's committee has given to commercial spaceflight but what hasn't been talked about is the mystery booster

In the full Review of US human spaceflight plans report it separates the booster from the capsule for the commercial crew competiton it is proposing and refers to a high reliability booster with a track record that NASA would provide but oddly it is not named. On page 70 the report says

In addition, the Committee believes that if a commercial crew program is pursued, NASA should make available to bidders a suitable version of an existing booster with a demonstrated track record of successful flight, adding to the program cost.

Some might have assumed that this was an Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle, either United Launch Alliance's Atlas V or its Delta IV but if so why not just say so?

According to the report it will have a track record which suggests that it should be flying already, so why not name it?

Could it then be the Delta II, a rocket that we always hear is about to have its last launch? But that only has a measly 5,430kg to low Earth orbit capability so its unlikely to be it, not based on that payload capacity data anyway it doesn't look quite enough. Not if you want a six crew International Space Station emergency return capable vehicle. It's a shame because the Delta has, according to this document, a very good reliability

So why not those EELVs?

The EELVs have their fair share of challenges, from the revelation that the Atlas V was apparently deemed unsafe by the Orbital Space Plane programme and its Russian engine situation, to the Delta IV needing a new upper stage and a new launch pad - the latter being mentioned by United Launch Alliance CEO Michael Gass at the 17 June Augustine hearing

Could it be a foreign launcher? NASA administrator Charles Bolden told this journalist at the 60th International Astronautical Congress in Korea in October that it would be up to US president Barack Obama to decide to what degree international partners were "on the critical path" for crew transport. Could a Samara Space Center Soyuz-FG launch a "commercial" capsule from French Guiana? Alas that six crew capability necessary capsule won't like that, assuming that is actually needed

So what could this mystery booster be? Could it be the Ares I? Probably not if you want a 2016 first launch that fits within the Obama 2010 NASA budget request

Could it be a booster of the future? When the report says track record it doesn't say a record yet to be substantiated but it does'nt not say that either

Could there be a booster that would have flown dozens of times by 2016? Yes, its Space Exploration Technologies' Falcon 9 and it has a 10,450kg to LEO (28.5 degree inclination) capability - SpaceX says that would only be slightly lower for the ISS' 52 degrees orbital inclination location. And then there is the heavy version with its three liquid cores and its 26,000kg to LEO potential

But why not Orbital Sciences' Taurus II I hear you ask? Because this blog post is going to assume that the Space News article not naming it as a company selected for NASA's Commercial Crew Development activity is correct - so no crew transport for Orbital

Hyperbola has even heard gossip that the Augustine committee had Falcon 9 in mind. Certainly SpaceX can jump for joy if true because the committee's report goes on to say on page 70

As will be discussed in Section 5.4.2., the Committee reviewed convincing evidence
of the value of independent oversight in the mission assurance of launchers, and would envision a strong NASA oversight role in assuring commercial vehicle safety. The challenge of developing a safe and reliable commercial capability for crew transport will require devoting government funds to "buy down" a significant amount of the existing uncertainty. Whatever the particulars of this risk removal process, it will take an appreciable period of time and require the application of thorough, independent mission-assurance practices. A critical aspect of this exercise will be confirming the root cause and adequacy of correction of any failures or anomalies encountered in the development test program. [emphasis added]

The report then goes on to say, again on page 70, that

NASA should make available...a suitable version of an existing booster...adding to the program cost. The best preliminary estimate of the Committee was about a $3 billion program for the fraction of the design, development, test, and evaluation (DDT&E) effort that would be borne by NASA. After multiplying by the historical growth factors and
other multipliers associated with 65 percent confidence estimating (as will be discussed in Section 6.3), the cost carried in the Committee's final estimate of the cost of the program to NASA is about $5 billion.[emphasis added]

This suggests that NASA's costs for crew transport will almost entirely be taken up with the booster suggesting the commercial partner will have to find all the funds for the capsule or at least NASA's share of that spend will be very limited. But if you're making the booster your laughing all the way to the bank it would seem - are we still sure Ares I won't get selected?

But it gets worse. On page 71 the report says

It was estimated by the Committee that under the "less constrained budget" to be discussed in Chapter 6, the commercial crew launch service could be in place by 2016. Estimates from providers ranged from three years to five years from the present. Assuming a year for program re-alignment, this would produce a start in early FY 2011. Using the upper end of the estimated range, a capability in 2016 could be estimated with reasonable confidence.[emphasis added]

The less constrained budget adds $3 billion over the next four fiscal years. What is the likelihood of that happening?

The situation that exists is that the Augustine committee sees a commercial option operating by 2016 only if there is extra NASA cash. Neither does it envisage a truly commercial procurement process, NASA is now on the critical path with the booster. And not just for mission assurance that is clear. Now the booster is independent of much of the commercial partners whose sole aim is to produce an American Soyuz with a minimum of three seats and a maximum of six, one would imagine

The question that remains with Hyperbola is, is that booster Ares I or Falcon 9 because that choice is all important


Bonne journée


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 14 Déc 2009 - 22:05

Bonsoir
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/hyperbola/2009/12/could-atlas-v-get-a-new-first.html



Why does Augustine's EELV option seem suspicially Ares-like?

It's a question to ask when you consider that Norman Augustine's report says on page 92:

The [Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle]-heritage Super Heavy Option 5B has an edge in technology, because it includes a new US developed large hydrocarbon engine,

Why is this important, because the report says on page 69 that "Using the EELV to launch the Orion [or any capsule this blog imagines] would only make sense if it were coupled with the development of an EELV-heritage super-heavy vehicle for cargo launch"?

Does that mean that the much touted EELV crew launchers such as Atlas V would need such a new hydrocarbon engine? Hydrocarbons, namely engines that burn kerosene with liquid oxygen, much beloved of the Russians, are first stage engines. The link that Augustine is making between an EELV crew vehicle launcher and a cargo booster is essentially the same that existed between Ares I and Ares V

And sure enough on page 67 Augustine says: "The upgraded EELV systems would have a core vehicle that would, by itself, have a launch capability to low-Earth orbit in the range of 30 to 35 [metric tonnes]"

Thirty five metric tonnes, sounds enough for one of these core stages to loft a chunky Orion crew and service module, and all thanks to this wonderful new hydrocarbon engine - but who would make it?

Interestingly on page 37 of the 2008 NASA authorisation act it stated that the Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) should produce a report for Congress on the US rocket engine industrial base. It was supposed to be delivered in January of this year but by July Hyperbola was being told by OSTP that "The interagency review is ongoing and progress has been made. But it is not complete and I can't predict how much longer it will take."

It is now December and you would imagine that such a report could be quite important for such a decision on EELV or Ares, or any of the crew transportation options. At the moment there are basically three US companies offering powerful hydrocarbon engines, Space Exploration Technologies' (SpaceX) Merlin engine, Aerojet's Russian NK-33 originated AJ26-xx variants and Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne's own P&WR RS-27A (however this Delta II main engine on its own will not have the power needed for Augustine's proposals) and the Russian Energomash RD-180, RD-120

Or is this OSTP rocket engine industrial base report being held back for one reason? The SpaceX Falcon 9 maiden flight perhaps?

New hydrocarbon engines, core stages with 35,000kg to LEO capabilities, does it begin to sound like the EELV option Augustine considered is a very long way from the "we just need an emergency detection system" for Atlas V argument from EELV proponents?

This preference for an "EELV-heritage" vehicle and not a straight EELV booster could explain why for the Delta IV Heavy option for crew launch Augustine's report said: "launch of the Orion on the Delta IV HLV was found to be technically feasible, it...was comparable in cost and schedule to simply continuing with the development of the Ares I [crew launch vehicle]."

Ouch, Ares I is no advert for cost savings the Augustine report gives a figure of $6 billion for its completed development on page 90. And that harsh cost estimate for Delta sounds odd because at the Augustine panel's 17 June meeting the Aerospace Corporation reported that Delta IV HLV is cheaper than Ares I to get to ISS and would take 5.5 to 7-years to be human rated

Has the Augustine report set existing EELVs up to fail?

Why does the report use harsher language for the Delta IV HLV for crew transport than was presented by Aero Corp back in June? And why does it go on to ignore the simpler evolution path of the Delta IV for a super heavy with a new upper stage and extra solids to achieve 50,000kg to LEO, Augustine's own exploration minimum using propellant depots? Are extra solids and a new upper stage so much worse than a new family of "EELV-heritage" vehicles with this 35,000kg capable core stage?

And then Hyperbola is being told that EELVs had been touted as the mystery booster by Augustine panel members during talks with industry, which makes even less sense with the report's statements in mind. And even more so when this blog is hearing rumous that SpaceX's Falcon 9 could be the mystery booster first choice

But for a really bizarre twist the Augustine report says this, "the EELV-heritage super heavy vehicle would use the Russian RD-180 hydrocarbon fueled engine, currently used on the Atlas V...In the cost analysis...provision was made for the development of a large domestic engine to replace the RD-180 for NASA...missions."

For a rocket that is a bit like saying we'll build this house and then later we'll change its foundations. Bizarre

And just to well and truly end any hopes for this "EELV-heritage" vehicle Augustine's report says: "Because of these realignment costs [workforce, facilities closures, mothballing], the EELV-heritage super heavy does not become available significantly sooner than the Ares V"

Phew. Compared in cost to Ares I and compared to Ares V in terms of schedule. Could it get any worse?

L'important c'est les deux dernières phrases je crois.

Je sais ce que vais lire pendant les vacances Wink
Avec une provision d'aspirine

Bonne soirée


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Sam 19 Déc 2009 - 19:50

Bonsoir à tous

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/Padabort121709.xml&headline=Orion Pad-Abort ACM Tested&channel=space



Orion Pad-Abort ACM Tested

Dec 17, 2009






Engineers at the Alliant Techsystems' (ATK) facility in Elkton, Md., have completed another ground test of the solid-propellant attitude control motor (ACM) designed to steer the launch abort system for NASA's Orion crew exploration vehicle.

Performed Dec. 15, the sixth test of the system appeared successful, although final results must await further analysis, ATK said.

The system consists of a solid-propellant gas generator with eight valves equally spaced around its three-foot diameter. In the test, control software directed as much as 7,000 pounds of thrust to different combinations of the valves, simulating the force that would stabilize and push the Orion capsule away from danger after the launch abort system pulled it off its Ares I crew launch vehicle during a failure on ascent.

"The completion of the Demonstration Motor 1 hot-fire test is a substantial advancement in the development of the ACM," said Kevin Rivers of NASA's Langley Research Center, which is managing the launch abort system development. "With an elaborate eight-valve control system that relies on advanced ceramic composites for several key components, the ACM is among the most complex solid rocket systems ever built."

A test of the entire launch abort system is planned next spring at the White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico.




En attendant un test complet avec une capsule, le sixième essai de la tour a été effectué avec succès.

Bonne soirée


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Jeu 28 Jan 2010 - 8:52

Bonjour à tous

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/space/os-no-moon-for-nasa-20100126,0,2770904.story



NASA's plans to return astronauts to the moon are dead. So are the rockets being designed to take them there — that is, if President Barack Obama gets his way.

When the White House releases his budget proposal Monday, there will be no money for the Constellation program that was supposed to return humans to the moon by 2020. The troubled and expensive Ares I rocket that was to replace the space shuttle to ferry humans to space will be gone, along with money for its bigger brother, the Ares V cargo rocket that was to launch the fuel and supplies needed to take humans back to the moon.

There will be no lunar landers, no moon bases, no Constellation program at all.

In their place, according to White House insiders, agency officials, industry executives and congressional sources familiar with Obama's long-awaited plans for the space agency, NASA will look at developing a new "heavy-lift" rocket that one day will take humans and robots to explore beyond low Earth orbit. But that day will be years — possibly even a decade or more — away.

In the meantime, the White House will direct NASA to concentrate on Earth-science projects — principally, researching and monitoring climate change — and on a new technology research and development program that will one day make human exploration of asteroids and the inner solar system possible.

There will also be funding for private companies to develop capsules and rockets that can be used as space taxis to take astronauts on fixed-price contracts to and from the International Space Station — a major change in the way the agency has done business for the past 50 years.

The White House budget request, which is certain to meet fierce resistance in Congress, scraps the Bush administration's Vision for Space Exploration and signals a major reorientation of NASA, especially in the area of human spaceflight.

"We certainly don't need to go back to the moon," said one administration official.

Everyone interviewed for this article spoke on condition of anonymity, either because they are not authorized to talk for the White House or because they fear for their jobs. All are familiar with the broad sweep of Obama's budget proposal, but none would talk about specific numbers because these are being tightly held by the White House until the release of the budget.

But senior administration officials say the spending freeze for some federal agencies is not going to apply to the space agency in this budget proposal. Officials said NASA was expected to see some "modest" increase in its current $18.7 billion annual budget — possibly $200 million to $300 million more but far less than the $1 billion boost agency officials had hoped for.

They also said that the White House plans to extend the life of the International Space Station to at least 2020. One insider said there would be an "attractive sum" of money — to be spent over several years — for private companies to make rockets to carry astronauts there.

But Obama's budget freeze is likely to hamstring NASA in coming years as the spending clampdown will eventually shackle the agency and its ambitions. And this year's funding request to develop both commercial rockets and a new NASA spaceship will be less than what was recommended by a White House panel of experts last year.

That panel, led by former Lockheed Martin CEO Norm Augustine, concluded that to have a "viable" human space-exploration program, NASA needed a $3 billion annual budget hike, and that it would take as much as $5 billion distributed over five years to develop commercial rockets that could carry astronauts safely to and from the space station.

Last year, lawmakers prohibited NASA from canceling any Constellation programs and starting new ones in their place unless the cuts were approved by Congress. The provision sends a "direct message that the Congress believes Constellation is, and should remain, the future of America's human space flight program," wrote U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., last month.

Nevertheless, NASA contractors have been quietly planning on the end of Ares I, which is years behind schedule and millions of dollars over budget. NASA has already spent more than $3 billion on Ares I and more than $5 billion on the rest of Constellation.

In recent days, NASA has been soliciting concepts for a new heavy-lift rocket from major contractors, including Boeing Co., Lockheed Martin Corp. and Pratt & Whitney. Last week, a group of moonlighting NASA engineers and rocket hobbyists proposed variations on old agency designs that use the shuttle's main engines and fuel tank to launch a capsule into space. According to officials and industry executives familiar with the presentations, some of the contractor designs are very similar to the one pressed by the hobbyists.

Officially, companies such as Boeing still support Constellation and its millions of dollars of contracts. Some believe that in a battle with Congress, Ares may survive.

"I would not say Ares is dead yet," said an executive with one major NASA contractor. "It's probably more accurate to say it's on life support. We have to wait to see how the coming battle ends."

Few doubt that a fight is looming. In order to finance new science and technology programs and find money for commercial rockets, Obama will be killing off programs that have created jobs in some powerful constituencies, including the Marshall Space Flight Center in Shelby's Alabama. But the White House is said to be ready for a fight.

The end of the shuttle program this year is already going to slash 7,000 jobs at Kennedy Space Center.

One administration official said the budget will send a message that it's time members of Congress recognize that NASA can't design space programs to create jobs in their districts. "That's the view of the president," the official said.



Fin du programme constellation ?
Plus de retour sur la lune ?
En remplacement
a) un lanceur lourd qui permettrait des vols humains et automatiques au delà de la Lune...
b) des vols habités commerciaux vers ISS
c) prolongation d'ISS jusqu'en 2020

Enfin tout cela n'est pas fait... il y a trop d'intérêt en jeux, notamment à la NASA... où la transition d'un programme en phase d'essai vers un programme en phase de démarrage risque d'entrainer pas mal de sureffectif...

A suivre

Bonne journée


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aubla
Whisky Quebec

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par aubla le Lun 1 Fév 2010 - 22:31

Bonsoir

pour compléter les infos ci-dessus, un lien en français :

http://www.aerocontact.com/actualite_aeronautique_spatiale/ac-obama-souhaite-annuler-le-programme-constellation~09535.html

bonne soirée
cordialement

jullienaline
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par jullienaline le Ven 26 Mar 2010 - 13:24

Bonjour à tous,

Lockheed Martin et Alliant Techsystems Inc vont faire équipe pour réintroduire sur le marché une fusée, nommée Athena, développée dans les années 90. Elle comportera deux versions, Athena1 pour 700 kg en orbite basse et Athena2 pour 1712 kg.

Space firms relaunch commercial rocket program

* Venture driven by demand for small satellites
* Boosters seen supporting up to two launches per year
By Irene Klotz
CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla., March 25 (Reuters) - Lockheed Martin and Alliant Techsystems Inc said on Thursday they were teaming up to build and sell a booster rocket known as Athena, hoping to tap into a growing market for small satellites.
The joint venture restructures and re-introduces for commercial sale a booster that flew seven times between 1995 and 2001 with five successful missions, including putting NASA's Lunar Prospector spacecraft into orbit around the moon.
Athena program manager Al Simpson said a declining market for small satellites had prompted Lockheed Martin to mothball production a decade ago.
Now, new demand for small satellite launch services coming from the Department of Defense and NASA make the Athena economically viable, with an estimated launch rate of one- to two missions per year, Simpson said.
The company plans to offer two versions of the rocket. Athena 1 will carry about 1,540 pounds (700 kg) to an orbit 100 nautical miles above Earth and Athena 2 will be able to lift more than 3,770 pounds (1,712 kg)to the same orbit.
The Athena will compete with Space Exploration Technology's Falcon 1 and several rockets sold by Orbital Sciences Corp, among others.
Athena is expected to fly from a launch complex at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida that recently was acquired by Space Florida, a state-backed economic development group. Other launch sites for Athena include Vandenberg Air Force Base in California, Wallops Island in Virgina and Alaska's Kodiak Island.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNN2510112220100325?rpc=44

Amicalement


_________________
Jullienaline

jullienaline
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par jullienaline le Ven 26 Mar 2010 - 13:30

Une petit lien pour ceux qui comme moi ne connaissent pas ce lanceur :

http://www.capcomespace.net/dossiers/espace_privee/athena/athena.htm



Athena 1 est un lanceur à trois étages haut de 19,8 m pour 2,4 m de diamètre et une masse de 66 tonnes au décollage. la poussée au sol est de 142 tonnes.

Amicalement


_________________
Jullienaline

TRIM2

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par TRIM2 le Mer 8 Sep 2010 - 15:02

Bonjour à tous,

Je ne change pas un iota de mes précédents posts.

Les projets 'privés' Space X' et autres ne fonctionnent pas.

A noter que le type de propulseurs choisis par Space X et une copie de ...Soyouz..

Plus de boosters à poudre.

Propulseur central et auxiliaires utilisant le mélange kéro+ 02 et pas le LOX..

Moteurs 'jetables' :expandable, donc grosse différence d'ISF..

J'en parlerai si cela interesse quelqu'un. ( faites un tour sur Wiki, cela ne permet pas de tout comprendre..)

Cordialement.
TRIM2

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mer 8 Sep 2010 - 17:20

Merci Trim2

l'ISF c'est l'impulsion spécifique ?

Lox + Kéro c'est bien Soyouz, mais également Saturn, Atlas, Thor

C'est peut-être old school mais quelles sont les alternatives ? 100% cryogénique ? Est-ce que ça existe ? Mixe Cryogénique / Poudre ? Quel avantage de la poudre ?

Wikip ne dit effectivement pas tout mais :


The basic design of the first engine variant (including the same turbopump) was based on the abandoned FASTRAC NASA project which developed the similar Fastrac rocket engine at the end of 1990s.[7]



Et je tombe sur ça

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurus_II

Où l'on parle du NK33 ... qui marche au kérosène...

En tout cas, moi je suis intéressé !

Merci


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Paul
Whisky Quebec

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Paul le Ven 29 Aoû 2014 - 0:22

Le futur lanceur américain développé par la NASA qui sera utilisé pour la première mission habitée vers Mars: le SLS (Space Launch System). Il servira également de lanceur lourd et remplacera ainsi la nevette. Charge utile de 70 à 130 tonnes selon la configuration.

Premier étage de 8,4 m de diamètre et 5 m pour le deuxième. 118 mètres de long pour la version 130 tonnes habitée (Block II crew). Premier vol prévu de la version 70 tonnes en décembre 2017 et premier vol habitée en 2021.

les différentes configs


http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/august/nasa-completes-key-review-of-world-s-most-powerful-rocket-in-support-of-journey-to/

http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/sls/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Launch_System




Contenu sponsorisé

Re: Futurs lanceurs U.S

Message par Contenu sponsorisé Aujourd'hui à 10:35


    La date/heure actuelle est Sam 3 Déc 2016 - 10:35