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Un premier vol du 787 pour Avril !

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Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Un premier vol du 787 pour Avril !

Message par Beochien le Lun 5 Jan 2009 - 1:50

Bon, d'aprés Flight Global, le Blog de Jon Ostrower, la lumière apparaît aprés un tunnel de 18 mois !

Avec quasi 2 ans de retard le 787-8 pourrait voler avant mai 2008 !

La pression est mise sur les changements de rivets et autres "Fasteners", l'avion a changé de poste, des renforts auraient (Encore) été envoyés vers les fournisseurs de software !
Il volera, trop lourd, mais avec un nouveau set de RR T1000 qui ont pu arriver, aux specs on l'espère maintenant !

-------------Le lien Flightglobal ------------------

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2008/12/new-year-to-bring-dreamliner-o.html

ZA001 has been back on its own three legs since December 9 when the right engine was reinstalled, followed by the left engine the following day. The recently mounted twin Rolls-Royce Trent 1000s are new-build engines, not the ones originally re-hung earlier this year, having come off the line in September 2008.

As 2008 closes, Boeing has completed the incorporation of the center wing box and tank modifications, which set back the program significantly earlier this year. The modifications were conducted concurrently with the extensive fastener replacement operation.


Béochien !


Dernière édition par Beochien le Ven 27 Fév 2009 - 11:15, édité 1 fois
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Sortie en vidéo du ZA001

Message par Invité le Lun 5 Jan 2009 - 13:33

Merci Beochien !

Voici la video, toujours sur Flight Blogger, de la sortie du ZA001, cette fois pas une coquille vide comme lors de la première !

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/01/video-dreamliner-one-leaves-bu.html

Combien de lb en surpoids EN TOUT ( specs papier et rafistolage des 20 premiers ( au moins ? ) Evil or Very Mad
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Beochien
Whisky Charlie

787-8 surpoids !

Message par Beochien le Lun 5 Jan 2009 - 14:49

Ben pour les surpoids du 787, à ce stade, ça doit bouger tout le temps, pour les 20 + les 100-120 premiers ! C'est plutôt le brouillard et les Airliners ne s'y trompent pas

Les bonnes corrections !
Comme les mauvaises surprises !

Pour le 787-8
On en était dans les 6-8000 lbs sûrement plus avec les moteurs GEnx
Over weight bien amplifiés pour le 787-9 vu que les principaux PB sont dans le Full Barrel et le Wing box (Un peu dans les Ailes Jap aussi) Ceci dit pour les 20 premiers !
Mais il semble que peu de corrections significatives se feront avant la sortie du 787-9 lequel allait joyeusement vers les 12000-14 000 lbs, et pour lequel le vrai programme d'allégement de la série est lancé, et qui ne retombera vraiment sur le 787-8 que vers 2012-2013, si tout va bien, et que de nouvelles surprises et délais ne s'ajoutent pas ??

Des Budgets de poids, qui ont pratiquement gelé le lancement du 787-10, en attendant les résultats du Weight Rip Out en cours pour les 2-3 ans à venir !

On mesure actuellement l'overweight du 787, plus a travers les coms des Airliners concernés, et à travers des prémices de "Rush" vers les modéles plus tardifs, et aussi par l'activité "Boeing" vis à vis des fournisseurs impliqués pour ce motif ! (merci le désign partagé)

On est mieux informés par la périphérie que par des coms Boeing; bien silencieux sur le sujet !
Mais qui doit quand même (Boeing) annoncer qq chose à ses client, en principe bientôt livrés ... disons vers 2010 !
Lesquels clients ne savent plus sur quel pied danser, entre délais et sous performances !
Reporter les livraisons pour éviter les premières séries .... oui ... et les autres, que vont ils dire ou faire ... les volontaires, va falloir les atrapper au lasso, si tout le monde veut s'installer au dernier rang !!!
Le privilège d'être un client de lancement du 787 à perdu un bonne part de son Aura, devant la crainte d'avoir en plus d'un avion sous performant, qq ennuis sévères et esuyages de plâtres à subir !

Sacré dilemne !
Les indemnisations vont augmenter !
De bonnes affaires en perspective pour les clients ne nécessitant pas le "Full range"

La bonne nouvelle pourrait venir des moteurs de RR les T1000 qui pourraient eux avoir progressé et faire enfin re-gagner qq uns des Nmiles perdus !
On attend l'avis du spécialiste !!

On en est là !

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QQ liens Delta / NothWest dansent d'un pied surl'autre !

http://www.freep.com/article/20081228/BUSINESS05/812280355
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2008/11/will-northwests-787s-be-born-d.html
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerospace/archives/154674.asp

Sur-poids !
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/355871_dreamliner21.html
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/aerospace/archives/140335.asp

Et Wikip avec les Chiffres du loueur ILFC !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787

Boeing had been working to trim excess weight since assembly of the first airframe began in 2006. This is typical for new aircraft during their development phase. The first six 787s, which are to be used as part of the test program, will be overweight according to Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO Scott Carson. After the flight test program, these aircraft will be delivered to airline customers All Nippon Airways, Northwest Airlines and Royal Air Maroc at speculated deeper than usual discounts.[112] The first 787 is expected to be 5,000 lb (2,270 kg) overweight. The seventh and subsequent aircraft will be the first optimized 787s and are expected to meet all goals.[113] Boeing has redesigned some parts and made more use of titanium.[37] According to ILFC's Steven Udvar-Hazy, the 787-9's operating empty weight is around 14,000 lb (6,350 kg) overweight, which also could be a problem for the proposed 787-10.[114]

Béochien
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Re: Un premier vol du 787 pour Avril !

Message par Invité le Mer 7 Jan 2009 - 22:04

Un dessein de la ligne d'assemblage pêché sur Flight :

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/assemblystatus010509.jpg

Image Boeing !

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Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Un premier vol du 787 pour Avril !

Message par Beochien le Jeu 29 Jan 2009 - 23:22

Bonsoir

Un petit tour chez Leeham !
Du 25 Janvier, peut être pas vu !

Concerne les fasteners non remplacés !

La SPEEEA n'approuve pas (Et, encore un autre PB en cours pour le renouvellement de leurs contrats)

A la fin, le point de vue (Opposé) de deux ingés aéro indépendants !

Intéressant !

-------------------------- Leeham, extraits -----------------------------

http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/787-test-planes-to-retain-temp-fasteners/

The company has a timeline of eight months for the flight testing, which would take it to the end of the year in time for a 1Q10 first delivery. Aerospace analysts are largely in agreement that the flight testing will take a year (Airbus plans on a 15 month testing period for its A350).

Although Boeing wants a first flight toward the end of April, its labor unions and many inside Boeing, as well as others, are skeptical this will happen, saying “everything” has to “go right” for this to occur.

Replacing fasteners is taking longer than expected and involve more than originally thought. One executive familiar with the situation tells us that there were twice as many incorrectly designed fasteners as thought at one of the industrial partners that had to be replaced.

As for those remaining in the test airplanes, Boeing told us:

“The small number of fasteners that won’t be replaced are 1: not easy to reach AND (not OR) 2: don’t represent a safety of flight issue. They have the ability to withstand the loads and number of cycles expected during the flight test program. They must be repaired before long-term operations begin so they will be replaced during the refurbishment program after flight test.”

Boeing declined to quantify what percentage of fasteners is involved or where they are in the airplane. In confirming that all six test airplanes are involved, Boeing also said that the number of fasteners declines from Airplane 1 through Airplane 6.

“The majority of all discrepant fastener installations on 787s will be repaired prior to the flight test program,” Boeing told us. “A limited number of fastener installations will not repaired prior to flight test but will be repaired during the post-flight test refurbishment program. Analysis has been performed to validate the safety of the airplane for the flight test program.These assessments have been made in accordance with all Boeing and FAA requirements and procedures.”

How important is this? It depends on who you talk to.

Boeing’s engineer union, SPEEA, thinks all the fasteners should be replaced before test flights begin. Two aviation engineers we spoke to have split opinions; neither is employed by Boeing, Airbus or any of their suppliers.

One believes this is no big deal in a test program, on the assumption that engineering validation has been completed and the Federal Aviation Administration signs off. A test pilot we talked to agrees, on the same assumptions.

The second engineer we spoke with has a different view.

“I think would be very stupid of Boeing as it is not just a test aircraft, but is part of the certification aircraft series and would be non-conforming if using temporary fasteners besides any unknown flight test risks. The FAA should or could put a stop to it, by refusing to use it as flight test certification aircraft until conformity requirements are meet.”

Béochien
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Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Un premier vol du 787 pour Avril !

Message par Beochien le Lun 16 Fév 2009 - 18:16

Tiens, pendant que c'est d'actualité !

Le Dé-icing du 787 fabriqué par GKN !
Complexe et intéressant ! Déjà éprouvé pour des chasseurs !
Le A350 devrait s'en passer, Bleed Air oblige !
Ca consomme pas mal d'électricité quand même, normal aussi !, pour réchauffer toutes ces surfaces, à haute vitesse !

http://www.compositesworld.com/articles/787-integrates-new-composite-wing-deicing-system.aspx

A sprayable conductive layer
GKN Aerospace (Redditch, U.K.) has been engaged in heating-element research for several years and very recently has developed a composites-based solution that is poised to see commercial use for the first time on the wing leading edge of the forthcoming 787 Dreamliner from The Boeing Co. (Seattle, Wash.). In addition, GKN’s technology also is seeing military use on the engine intake for the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor military personnel aircraft and the inlet for the F135 Pratt & Whitney engine on the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter.

GKN’s solution represents a relatively radical departure from most previously tried heating-element deicing systems and holds promise for extension into a variety of related applications.

Frank Bamford, senior VP, business development and structures for GKN, has been working on the company’s deicing technology for several years and explains that the GKN technology is notable because it uses a spray mat metal deposition technology — liquid metal sprayed on a fiber fabric — to provide electrical conductivity for a heated wing leading edge. More importantly, GKN’s solution does not technically provide a heating element; the metal instead acts as a conductor and an electrothermal element that transfers heat to the wingskin. Says Bamford, “This is a spray-on metal technology that can be embedded in a metal or composite surface, but we have refined it for the 787 to embed in a carbon fiber composite structure.”

Béochien

sevrien
Whisky Quebec

Re: Un premier vol du 787 pour Avril !

Message par sevrien le Lun 16 Fév 2009 - 20:51

Merci, beochien !

Quand je pense à toute l'invective qu'il a fallu qu'on supporte, sous d'autres cieux, de la part de certains, qui se croyaient les As des composites, et qui n'avaient aucune idée de la qualité (des "ressources professionnelles et industrielles") à laquelle Airbus, et Boeing, bien sûr, avaient accès !

Où que l'on soit, cela vaut la peine de faire la chasse aux (fausses) idées reçues et à la désinformation !

Les pontifiants ne savaient même pas qui est GKN, n'avaient aucune connaissance de ses prouesses et accomplissements !

J'ai des choses pertinentes à dire plus tard sur GKN, dans un autre registre. Wink
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Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: Un premier vol du 787 pour Avril !

Message par Beochien le Ven 27 Fév 2009 - 11:13

Bonjour

Mark Jenks, VP dévlpt du 787 donne un long interwiew en trois parts ! à Fleetbuzz !
2 parts dispo, la 3eme à venir !

Rien de bien nouveau, Mark Jenks est prudent !
Le programme d'essai un peu plus conservateur que prévu originellement !
Le management du tout électrique, pas encore réglé, mais ça vient !
Et ils feront le max sur une seule FAL !
La seconde vraiment en pointillé !
Le 787-9 permettra le weight Ripoux du 787-8, ça on le savait !

----------------- Fleetbuzz Long Extrait Part 1 ---------------------

http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/02/23/787program/

“Early on we had an even more aggressive flight test program. With the more recent schedule changes, we’ve really moved that flight test program in line with our history [of flight test programs of other Boeing airplanes].

So whereas before we needed to have flight rates that were higher or as high as we’ve ever done in the past, the current schedule is in line with what we’ve demonstrated in the past. Yes, the technology is new, every program has got a suite of new technologies – a lot of what [from a technology perspective] has really been driving the scheduling by rights would drive the schedule aren’t necessarily big flight test drivers so you know, a lot of the things in terms of the new composite structure, the fastener issues – those really aren’t things that would typically be drivers in a flight test program - it’s not the kind of thing that generally drives a flight test program.”


“So in terms of the risk areas in flight test, a lot of it isn’t necessarily that different than what we would have had before [on previous airplanes]. There are a few things, clearly, where we have taken steps in terms of the more electric architecture for the power system from a technology standpoint, that’s a bigger step, but again for the overall flight test program it’s in line with our history and there really isn’t a reason why we ought to be outside of that [history].

With the issues we’ve had on the [787]-8, all those get addressed on the 787-9. Now there’s elements of them [production issues] that you don’t completely back out necessarily, but the vast majority of the things we’ve seen on the 787-8, we can and will and are addressing on the 787-9. Where we’ve had specific issues, the fastener one is a great example, every bit of that is absolutely “lessons learned” and directly translates into the 787-9 and we won’t do that again - I can say with a lot of certainty!

The [problem area] ones like that that we’ve hit will be fully incorporated into the 787-9 and will not happen again; you “only know what you know”.

The 787-9 is a derivative program and the kinds of things that we’ve experienced are really associated very much with the “first time on a new all composite, more electric airplane” and that’s not a change on the derivatives. The kind of change we’re implementing on the derivatives are the kinds of things we do in general on derivatives – we’re gonna take weight out of the structure where we can. We’re gonna put more weight in where we need it for higher loads for the stretched airplane, these are things that are very familiar to us, so in general, the things we’ve seen now, the timing is such that we can, will and are fixing those as we go into the 787-9 and the other things we’re doing on the 787-9 should not be that unusual for us.

When you look at performance, there are three big drivers – you got the efficiency of the engine, you got the basic aerodynamics of the airplane and also the weight of the airplane. The engines are fortunately are very “backwardly compatible”, so as the engine makers make improvements as they always do, to support the 787-9, so there’ll be engine performance that’ll continue to improve airplane performance whether it’s the 787-8 or 787-9.

There will be improvements in weight that we make on the 787-9 that will be very easy to incorporate back on the 787-8 and in fact a lot of what we’ll do for the 787-9 that’s different, where we’ve got specific ideas where we now know we can take weight out, we will do that for the 787-9 because we’ve got to get the best performance for that airplane as we can and in many cases we’ll use that back for future versions of the 787-8. There are some cases where that doesn’t work but there are cases where it does and it’s fairly straightforward to incorporate those improvements back onto the Dash 8. In fact, we want to do that where we can in terms of commonality, cost and efficiency in building these airplanes. There’s a very strong tie between what we do on the 787-9 and getting the benefits back on the 787-8.”


Stepping Up Production To Eat Into The Backlog

To cut a long story short - no, there’s no immediate plans for a second production line. Jenks explained the rationale and highlighted how the existing infrastructure and supply chain are not yet “fully maximised” to justify the outlay of another line.

“Right now, the single [production] line meets the firm production [estimates] that we have and as we go forward, if we can sell more and we need to look at being able to build more to a higher rate, we’ll have time before we have to make any decisions to see how efficient we can make the line.

Right now it works with our single line, we’ve got time to go figure out how much additional efficiency we can drive in before we would have to make decisions that if we want to go to a higher rate, can we squeeze it in on one line here [in Everett] or have multiple lines and it’s the same situation with the supply base. If there are areas in the [supplier] factories right now and we would want to push them to higher than they can do right now, we have time to get into [higher] production, get the rate up which can really start to exercise the [supply] system and then we ask “how good can we make this, how much can we lean it out” but right now, things are sized to meet with the existing facilities.

There are areas in some of the [supply] factories where they’ll make modifications, relatively minor modifications to their factories to reach to the rates we have already sold to – so for example if they have to knock out a wall and put another machine in, that’s all within the plan.

In terms of us [here at Everett] going to a full second line or a new factory, those are not yet at “lead time” to make those decisions.”

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Bon, dans la part 2, Jenks se marre un peu, et prévoit que airbus va souffrir comme Boeing !
Pour sortir son A350 !
Il se pose qq questions sur le Y1 ! mais visiblement pense qu'Airbus en a assez sur les bras ! Boeing observe, normal, c'est son tour !

Le B787-3 n'est pas annulé (Les Japs apprécieront) il sera pris aprés le 787-9 ! Donc, des progrés sur le poids !
Bon ça donne le temps de réfléchir à sa définition !!

Il y à plus de chances de voir un 787-10 (Not ruled out) .... mais pas de délai ... qu'un remplaçant du B777 ! Dixit un Client !


-------------------- Fleetbuzz long Extrait part 2 ------------------------

http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/2009/02/26/787program-part2/

787 Program Review (Part Two)

February 26th, 2009

Part Two of the 787 Program Review continues with Vice President of 787 Development, Mark Jenks as he discusses the future of the airplane.
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As the expansion in twin aisle, twinjets continues, Jenks highlights the problems faced by both Boeing and Airbus in the near future. For Airbus, they are working on their first major new airplane program since the A380, and for Boeing, the dilemma of what to do about the 777 family continues to raise as many questions as it does opportunities.

“With the plan we have, the 787 and 777 are very complementary in their current form. When you look at the 787-8 and 787-9 and the 777 models our customers use, the combination is a really good combination for a lot of airlines.

At the end of the day, a lot is gonna depend on what Airbus does.

The competitive dynamic is going to drive a portion of this, but what does Airbus do next - are they gonna do a new refresh or new A320-sized airplane?

We’ve got decisions to make; when do we go look at a new smaller airplane versus a look at a refresh of the 777 – is it a refresh, is it a whole new airplane or do another derivative or upgrade; those are all things that are “in the mix.””

“It’s gonna be an interesting play to watch – even before Airbus does anything in terms of committing to their next move, they’ve still got an A350 to do and they’ll have interesting times ahead of them, I’m sure, as we had!

It’s going to be a very interesting marketplace, now that the economy is taking a turn, you knows, its another variable – all those things are in the mix – there are lots of options that have lots of interesting elements to them.”

Critically, Jenks made a point about the another derivative of the 787.

“Yes, there’s still a 787-3 in our program,” he notes.

From my discussions with both Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways, both carriers are “disappointed” that the 787-3 has been pushed back for service entry after the 787-9, itself due in service in 2013, however both state that they “remain committed” to taking 43 787-3’s firmly ordered by the two carriers.

No firm date has been publicly announced as to when either carrier will take first deliveries of there 787-3’s.

Arran Aerospace’s Doug McVitie states the value proposition behind the 787-3 is a great tactical move for Boeing.

“The 787-3’s value to Boeing is far greater than a simple addition to the 787 stable. The aircraft is a strategic asset for Boeing which will perpetuate the Japanese airline industry’s long-running close cooperation with the US manufacturer,” he tells FleetBuzz Editorial.com.

Critically, discussions on the proposed second stretch 787-10 have in recent months dissipated while Boeing focusses on the near term aim of first flight.

“Don’t rule out the 787-10 just yet - you’ll probably see it fly sooner than a 777 replacement,” said one 777/787 customer who declined to be identified.


Béochien
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Re: Un premier vol du 787 pour Avril !

Message par Invité le Sam 28 Fév 2009 - 14:31

Merci !

Toujours ce problème de WingBox vu à peu prés partout.

Que les japonais n'aient pas bien fait le job, je n'y crois pas une seconde.
On pourrait remettre ça, de façon constructive dans les "Materiaux nouveaux".
Je ne suis pas ingénieur aéronautique, certainement pas, mais la "Souplesse" de l'aile, à ce point ! et vu de mon seul et simple bon sens, ça me dérange, je pense qu'elle aurait du rompre plus tôt.
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Continuer d'évoquer le 787-10 et même 787-3 ne va pas renforcer la crédibilité indus et market de B

Seulement mon humble avis

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