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Boeing : Ligne d'assemblage 787 à Charleston

Poncho (Admin)
Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

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Message par Poncho (Admin) Jeu 29 Oct 2009 - 9:08

Bonjour à tous
Petite revue de presse matinale

Tout est dit dans le titre

Seattle sera mis à contribution pour des surcapacités pour le bon démarrage du 787-9
Surcapacités qui seront résorbées par la montée en puissance à Charleston.

Point de blocage pour l'implantation dans l'état de Washington : accord sur une période sans grève (10 ans à priori)

Bonne lecture

Boeing selects Charleston for second 787 final assembly line
By Jon Ostrower

Boeing has selected North Charleston, South Carolina as the site of its second 787 final assembly line.

"Establishing a second 787 assembly line in Charleston will expand our production capability to meet the market demand for the airplane," says Jim Albaugh, president and CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes.

The North Charleston site is currently responsible for the fabrication and integration of the 787's aft fuselage at Boeing Charleston, as well as the integration of the centre fuselage as part of Global Aeronautica, a joint venture with Alenia Aeronautica.

"This decision allows us to continue building on the synergies we have established in South Carolina with Boeing Charleston and Global Aeronautica," added Albaugh.

The primary Everett, Washington line became operational with the commencement of final assembly operations for ZA001, Boeing's first 787, in May 2007.

Since that time, Boeing has struggled with design issues and supply chain management problems as it works to complete the 787's maiden sortie by the close of 2009 after more than two years of delays.

Boeing CharlestonFlickrShareCreateApture™️

Boeing says that until the second 787 line is brought on line, the company will establish "transitional surge capability" on the existing Everett line to "ensure the successful introduction of the 787-9" which has a planned service entry at the end of 2013 with Air New Zealand.

"We're taking prudent steps to protect the interests of our customers as we introduce the 787-9 and ramp up overall production to 10 twin-aisle 787 jets per month," said Albaugh.

The news came less than a day after reports that negotiations between Boeing and its biggest union, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, had collapsed, making the selection of Charleston virtually inevitable.

Boeing had sought a no-strike agreement from the IAM, but the parties were not able to reach a compromise that would have kept the second line in Washington state.

Boeing had narrowed down its choices in recent weeks between North Charleston and Everett, Washington.

The first 787 Dreamliner will be delivered to Japan's All Nippon Airways in the fourth quarter of 2010.

Boeing holds 840 orders from 55 customers for the 787.

Whisky Charlie

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Message par jullienaline Jeu 29 Oct 2009 - 10:27

Bonjour à tous,
Bonjour Poncho,

Voila une nouvelle positive.
Mais après toutes les douches froides reçues ces derniers mois, je m'interroge. Ne cache-t-elle pas une prochaine annonce d'un nouveau report du 1er vol ?


Poncho (Admin)
Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

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Message par Poncho (Admin) Jeu 29 Oct 2009 - 14:05

Un autre point de vue, avec une date de mise en route :

... juillet 2011 avec une première livraison au Q1 2012 pas si longtemps que ça après la première livraison d'ailleurs

Le 787-9 est prévu pour une mise en ligne fin 2013...

Bonne lecture

line decision - sturm und drang
Posted by Guy Norris at 10/28/2009 11:23 PM CDT

So it is official. Boeing’s second 787 line will indeed be at Charleston, South Carolina – heralding the first time a Boeing commercial jetliner (not counting the inherited California-based production lines of the former McDonnell Douglas) will have been assembled outside of Washington State.

Some more detail has also come out following the Oct 28 announcement. According to BCA marketing vice president Randy Tinseth, Boeing’s goal is to have the second line up and running by July 2011, with first delivery in the first quarter of 2012. “Until Charleston’s second 787 line is underway, we’ll establish a transitional “surge” capability in Everett. This is to make sure we have a successful introduction of the 787-9, as well as ensure a smooth ramp-up to 10 deliveries per month between the two sites. When the Charleston line is up and running we’ll phase out the Everett surge capability. The process will take about 2 years,” says Tinseth.

The Boeing Charleston facility today - note Dreamlifter at far right. (Boeing)

“The second 787 assembly line will do a couple of things. It will expand our production capability and diversify our manufacturing base. We think ultimately this will reduce costs on the program, and that’s important for maintaining our competitiveness,” he adds.

So does this mean that having been ‘inspired’ by the Airbus airborne transport logistics system to bring the 787 together, Boeing is also following the Airbus double production line model to boost competitiveness?

Ironically when the Germans insisted on establishing a second production line for A320 family narrowbodies at Hamburg, the French argued it would cost up to $150 million in unnecessary costs. The Germans, denied it was all about national pride, and insisted it would bring about production efficiencies.

Just like Boeing’s decision to move outside Washington State, the Franco-German dispute over setting up a production line in Hamburg caused much ‘sturm und drang’. In the end a compromise was reached. A319s and A321s are built in Hamburg, while A320s (which Germany wanted to share with France), are built in Toulouse. Aircraft built in France are also flown to Hamburg for completion before final delivery from Toulouse, while all A319/A321 completions are performed in Germany.

Given the trials and tribulations over the program to-date Boeing’s timetable seems ambitious to say the least – but the site already produces and integrates big chunks of the 787 structure, and by 2011 Being’s production nightmare will surely be firmly behind it. Perhaps the real question is to do with the people who will build the 787-9. Where will they come from – Seattle?

And what about the lessons of the A320? Well France and Germany soon patched up their differences and production flexibility was indeed achieved. In later years an A320 production line was even established in China. Is that Boeing’s next move for the 787 one day?

Poncho (Admin)
Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

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Message par Poncho (Admin) Jeu 29 Oct 2009 - 23:18

Bonjour à tous

Encore un lien intéressant

Confirmation de :

2012 premier appareil sorti de Charleston

Répartition originale des 10 avions par mois comme suit :

7 pour WA
3 pour SC

Avec capacité de croissance pour ce dernier

787-9 construit à l'ouest
787-8 à l'est

Pour les tenants et les aboutissant de cette décision, et le rôle des syndicat, je vous laisse juge

Pour ma part juste en regardant la répartition actuelle entre 787-8 et -9 (sachant qu'elle est pas figée... bien entendu)

Boeing 787 total firm orders
787-3 787-8 787-9
28 628 194

Si Seattle reste avec le -9, la grosse part du boulot risque d'être effectivement à Charleston...

Alors peut-être que tout le monde a déjà converti ses -8 en -9 Wink
Ou bien l'avenir de Charleston va être radieux !

Bonne journée

Poncho (Admin)
Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

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Message par Poncho (Admin) Ven 30 Oct 2009 - 22:58

Bonjour à tous

Voici quelques compléments

The many moving parts of the Charleston line decision
By Jon Ostrower on October 29, 2009 3:19 PM | Permalink | Comments (6) | TrackBacks (0) |ShareThis
Everett's Surge
Over the next two years or so, Boeing will continue to ramp up 787-8 production with the help of the newly-announced temporary surge line. The line will be established on the existing 767 line inside Building 40-24, two bays down from the current 787 line, say company sources. The 767, which will continue operating at around a 1-per month production rate, will be turned around in the back of 40-24 and roll out of Building 40-34. Boeing may have to make provisions to ensure a fully assembly 767 can transit to the flight line. Sometime in 2012, Boeing will begin final assembly and testing of the first 787-9 in Everett, where the aircraft will be built. Seven of the 10 787s assembled per month will originate in Everett.

Charleston Timeline
Boeing says that the Charleston line will be up and running by July 2011, with groundbreaking in the next few weeks. For the sake of comparison, Global Aeronautica ground breaking was February 7, 2005, with tooling and equipment moved into the facility by December 2006. Initially the plan is to have Boeing Charleston build 3 787-8s per month as part of the 10 per month ramp up. First delivery of a 787-8 is planned for the first quarter of 2012.

Dreamlifter Dynamics
With the second line set to be up and running by 2012, the small fleet of modified 747 LCF Dreamlifters will be deployed differently than they currently are now. The number of inbound structural delivery flights to Everett is now seven per aircraft. For Charleston, best estimates show that that number would reduce to six. This is mainly because without the aft and center fuselages will be built on site in Charleston. Boeing saves flights of the horizontal stabilizer, however, the wings will have an additional flight from PAE to CHS and the vertical tail plane will also likely be flown from BFI (closer to Frederickson, WA) to CHS. The total distance traveled by the LCF is 16405 nm to Everett vs. 13933 nm to Charleston.

EVERETT ROUTE Flights Distance
2 4369
FWD FUSE (Wichita)
1 1258
2 6574
CENTER & AFT (Charleston)
2 4205
TOTAL: 7 16405 NM

WINGS (Nagoya, JP)
3 6471
FWD FUSE (Wichita)
1 891
HTP (Foggia, IT)
1 4472
VTP (Washington)
1 2099
TOTAL: 6 13933 NM

Delivery Geography
Though not officially announced, there is a the possibility of shaping the 787 firing order based on the geographical location of the customer. I spoke with one program source yesterday who said that Boeing may consider delivering European and African 787s through Charleston and Asia/Pacific 787s through Everett to take advantage of the relative proximity of each line.

The Tanker Wild Card
Hanging out in the not so distant future is the USAF KC-X tanker deal. If Boeing wins this iteration of the competition, the KC-767 or KC-777 will be built in Everett, however the mission systems installation will be done elsewhere. That location was always thought to be McConnell Air Force Base in Wichita, Kansas, however, Boeing now says they will choose the cheapest location for the modifications, which could now mean that Charleston is in the mix. Boeing went to great lengths to say that the Charleston line is only for 787 work, but let's file this one under wild card.

Des compléments sur la ligne temporaire pour faire face à Seattle en attendant Charleston : elle prendra la place de ligne 767 qui sera déplacée.
Cette dernière ligne sera peut-être plus sollicitée qu'actuellement avec le contrat Tanker... qui serait au passage une belle manière de faire passer la pillule dans le Puget Sound

Bonne journée

Poncho (Admin)
Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

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Message par Poncho (Admin) Mar 10 Nov 2009 - 22:40


Un petit debriefing sur le choix de Charleston ici

Was Boeing's move to S.C. really about a negotiation gap?

The (Tacoma) News Tribune's John Gillie has a good postmortem on Boeing's decision to put its second 787 Dreamliner assembly line in North Charleston, S.C., rather than in Everett, Wash.

Gillie recaps the differences between what Boeing and International Association of Machinists negotiators were willing to accept and other reasons South Carolina attracted the line.

I was out with the flu when Boeing announced its decision, so I'll take this opening to offer my one cent on the issue, which is that I suspect either Boeing or union leadership wasn't serious about reaching a deal.

Machinists union district president Tom Wroblewski accused Boeing of using the talks as a "smokescreen" to "extort a bigger tax handout from South Carolina." He said company officials "didn't take our proposal seriously and they never offered any proposals of their own."

Boeing countered that the union refused to meet the company's stated needs for an agreement and insisted on untenable conditions such as large annual bonuses, a company pledge to stay neutral on union organizing and decertification campaigns and a guarantee to put future airplane programs in the Puget Sound region.

I think the truth is about more than the distance between the union and company offers, but outsiders are in no good position to say whether it was Boeing or the machinists who weren't serious about the talks.

Both sides would want to make it look like they were serious to deflect criticism from Washington residents and political leaders. Boeing, in particular, needs continued political support for such causes as international trade fights and Pentagon contracts.

But why wouldn't they actually take talks seriously?

Well, Boeing:

Clearly is interested in expanding its non-union workforce in a lower-wage state;
Likes the idea of not putting all of its eggs in the Everett basket, given the area's traffic snarls and potential for earthquakes and volcanic eruptions;
Sees having more sites as giving them more ability to win future concessions;
Sees some advantage in having South Carolina's Republican politicians on their side, given Boeing's largely Democratic Washington support;
Got a raft of new incentives from South Carolina.
On the last point, Washington Republicans have criticized Democratic state leaders for not giving more to Boeing. I think Boeing officials were sincere when they said any new incentives from Washington wouldn't make a difference in the choice of where to put the line.

As for the union, it faced huge political pressure to negotiate, while also confronting a membership largely hostile to a no-strike deal and, I suspect, an International leadership that didn't want to uncork that bottle either (at least not without major concessions they knew they wouldn't get).

Union leaders aren't interested in taking part in a race to the bottom with non-union Southern states on wages and benefits, which leaves them hoping they can win on other arguments, such as worker knowledge and ability. A new Boeing assembly line at a plant with a troubled history for a program plagued by missteps might help prove that point.

Et ici

Donc en synthèse :

Boeing a intérêt de sortir du WA state, soumis aux tremblements de terres et aux éruptions... en plus très démocrate... pour Charleston (républicaine)
Les "incentives" ne semblent pas avoir été un point saillant

Les syndicats pas chaud pour des concessions, notamment du fait des remontées de sa base pas très chaude elle même.

Bonne soirée

Whisky Charlie

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Message par jullienaline Ven 20 Nov 2009 - 22:00

Bonsoir à tous,

le premier coup de pioche vient d'être donné à Charleston. l'usine va sortir de terre.

Boeing breaks ground on South Carolina 787 plant

Boeing : Ligne d'assemblage 787 à Charleston 787scplant
Boeing's North Charleston, S.C., plant (Boeing image)

Boeing formally broke ground Friday on its North Charleston, S.C., 787 Dreamliner assembly plant.

"Today's event marks the beginning of an expansion plan that will strengthen the 787 program and allow us to continue building on the footprint we have established in South Carolina with Boeing Charleston and Global Aeronautica," Jim Albaugh, president and chief executive of Boeing Commercial Airplanes, said in a news release. "Locating the second line in North Charleston will allow Boeing to successfully compete in the aerospace market and grow for the long-term benefit of many stakeholders."

Boeing chose North Charleston over Everett, Wash., for its second 787 assembly site. The new plant also will be able to support the testing and delivery of airplanes.
"We look forward to expanding our capability in South Carolina through our existing site, while maintaining our commitment to the Puget Sound region where Boeing Commercial Airplanes remains headquartered," Albaugh said. "Puget Sound will continue to design and produce airplanes, including the 787."
Boeing Charleston performs fabrication, assembly and systems installation for the 787 aft fuselage sections. Global Aeronautica, which is 50 percent owned by Boeing, is responsible for joining and integrating 787 fuselage sections from other structural partners.


Poncho (Admin)
Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

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Message par Poncho (Admin) Mar 8 Déc 2009 - 9:14

Bonjour à tous

Boeing to duplicate Puget Sound work for 787
Boeing plans to make all the parts for the 787 Dreamliner currently produced in the Puget Sound region at a second location so that the second final assembly line being set up in North Charleston, S.C., can operate independently.

By Dominic Gates

Seattle Times aerospace reporter

Local Boeing workers have long complained that only the vertical tail fin of the 787 Dreamliner is built in the Puget Sound region.

But now even that small claim to uniqueness is going to be shared, as Boeing continues to turn the screws on the Machinists union after their two-month strike in 2008.

The company said Monday it plans to use suppliers to replicate production of all 787 parts produced in its Puget Sound-area factories — in Auburn, Everett, Fredrickson — and in Portland, so that a second final-assembly line being established in North Charleston, S.C., can operate independently.

The plan includes setting up a second Boeing facility or finding a supplier to build the vertical tail fin, now made in a state-of-the-art composites-manufacturing center in Frederickson, near Tacoma.

But it appears likely the tail fin will be built by Boeing in Charleston in a building close to the second assembly line for which ground is being cleared.

Boeing spokesman Jim Proulx cited strikes in the Puget Sound region as a major factor in the decision. With a second supplier for every part, Boeing potentially could continue producing Dreamliners in South Carolina even if the Machinists went on strike here.

"Repeated labor disruptions have affected our performance in our customers' eyes," Proulx said. "We have to show our customers we can be a reliable supplier to them." The second production line "has to be able to go on regardless of what's happening over here," he added.

Tom Wroblewski, president of International Association of Machinists (IAM) District 751, said Boeing's move is "another poor decision is a long line of poor decisions on this 787 program."

"Which part of that airplane has come in on time or ahead of schedule and at or under cost?" Wroblewski asked rhetorically of the troubled jet program, about 2 ½ years late and billions of dollars over budget.

"It's the vertical fin," he answered. "That's the piece that's been designed and engineered and built by Boeing workers here in Puget Sound.

"Why does the company insist on spending hundreds of millions of dollars to build a new facility in South Carolina, to bring in tooling, and now to supply that production line, when they have got the capability right here?" Wroblewski said.

He said Boeing could avoid strikes without that expense by bargaining in good faith with the Machinists. Meanwhile, he said, union members are saving the program by working on fixing the problems, many of which originated with other suppliers.

Boeing expects to fly the 787 for the first time next week. "We prove our worth every single day around here," Wroblewski said. "This airplane is going to fly, and it's going to fly because of us."

But by the time Wroblewski sits down in 2012 for the next contract negotiations, Boeing aims to have an alternative 787 parts pipeline in place, ready to bypass the Machinists.

Ray Conner, vice president and general manager of supply-chain management and operations, sent a message Monday informing all Boeing Commercial Airplanes managers of the dual-sourcing decision.

"We will immediately begin identifying, selecting and contracting with suppliers to stand up fully operational coproduction by 2012," Conner's message said.

Proulx said Boeing has not determined how much work will be replicated within the company in the new Charleston facility and how much may go to outside suppliers.

When Boeing broke ground on its Charleston assembly line in November, the company disclosed extensive plans for other buildings at the facility. Among these is a "fin and rudder shop," which suggests the tail fin may be built at Boeing Charleston.

But Proulx said, "It's too soon to say what will go where."

He said the replication of parts sourcing also would "accommodate the ramp-up" required to shift to a planned rollout of 10 planes a month by the end of 2013.

The latest Boeing employment data collected by the state shows that, as of the end of 2007, a little more than 5,200 people worked at Auburn and almost 1,600 in Frederickson.

The interiors fabrication unit is only a small part of the Everett work force, which then numbered almost 28,000. Boeing said about 1,400 employees work in Portland.

Boeing also has fabrication facilities in Australia, Canada and Salt Lake City. The work done at those locations won't be duplicated.

The common denominator among Frederickson, Auburn, Portland and Everett is that all are covered by the IAM District 751 contract.

Frederickson produces the 787 vertical tail fin including composite and metal subcomponents. Portland produces torque tubes, side-of-body chords and engine mounts for the 787. A unit in Everett produces interiors for the 787 cabin. Auburn produces 787 heat shields and the tail cone muffler.

In addition, highly skilled specialist machinists in Auburn provide emergency or urgent manufacturing capabilities, with the ability to make any structural part for any airplane at short notice if any supplier fails to deliver on time.

IAM spokeswoman Connie Kelliher said that because of all the glitches in the supply chain, Auburn machinists are making many 787 parts and sending them to Boeing's final-assembly line in Everett and to supplier facilities.

"Auburn is one of the largest suppliers to the 787 right now," she said. "A lot of them are for the suppliers because they couldn't deliver their parts."

A machinist who asked not to be named because he is not authorized to speak to reporters said workers in Auburn are the top machinists in the company and typically take 10 years to learn the job and get the skill level needed there.

Conner's message said the union knew this was coming.

"We informed the (IAM) of our plans to begin dual sourcing during the company/union discussions preceding our decision to place the second 787 line in South Carolina," Conner's message to managers stated. "We remain committed to strengthening our working relationship with the union."

Ray Goforth, executive director of the white-collar union at Boeing, the Society for Professional Engineering Employees in Aerospace (SPEEA), said Boeing's decision to dual source shows the company "has learned the wrong lessons from the debacle of their 787 supply chain."

Much of the delay in the jet program is attributable to a paralyzed supply chain. Some suppliers Boeing signed up failed to deliver the needed parts on time or delivered them incomplete.

"This is Boeing trying the global supply-chain model again," Goforth said.

Boeing's Proulx said potential external suppliers are being assessed "based on capabilities, based on their ability to produce high-quality components and at the best value."

"We'll review supplier expertise, and we'll ensure that the right level of training and oversight is in place to make sure the performance standards are met," he said.

Conner's message to managers emphasized the decision means duplication, not replacement, of work done in this region.

""We are not moving any work that Boeing employees are currently performing — we are just adding additional sources," Conner said.

However, SPEEA's Goforth said that once the buildup of 787 orders is filled, he sees little business sense in Boeing duplicating work. He fears Charleston and outside suppliers eventually will get more work and this region will get less.

"Why would you keep duplication of industrial capacity?" he said. "It looks like they could be getting out of the business of manufacturing those parts here at some point."

Dominic Gates: 206-464-2963 or

Boeing cherche à dupliquer l'intégralité de la chaine logisitique du 787 pour s'affranchir de certaines pièces exclusivement fabriquées dans le Puget sound.
Deux idées :
1) permettre la montée en cadence à 10 avions par mois en 2013
2) s'affranchir des risques de grève dure dans ce secteur et diminuer le bras de levier des syndicats dans ce secteur.

Si le point 2 est important, s'attendre à une mise en application pour le 737 également à plus ou moins brève échéance non ?

Bonne journée

Whisky Charlie

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Message par jullienaline Dim 10 Jan 2010 - 23:28

Bonsoir à tous,

Des conditions préférentielles d'impositions ont été accordées à Boeing par la Caroline du Sud pour l'attirer.
Le taux d'imposition accordé serait 4 % alors qu'il est habituellement de 10,5 % pour un industriel.

Boeing getting 60-percent tax break in South Carolina

Charleston County, S.C., gave Boeing a property-tax break of more than 60 percent for 30 years to lure the company's second 787 Dreamliner assembly line, The (Charleston) Post and Courier reported Saturday.
Boeing will pay a 4-percent rate on its real and personal property -- the same as homeowners, but significantly below the typical industrial rate of 10.5 percent, the paper reported, saying Boeing released the information.
The company also told the paper it would be eligible for tax credits that get rebated back to the company over 15 years to pay for site improvements at its Charleston International Airport campus.
The state may withhold release of details about its package for Boeing for up to a year after it is finalized.



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