Boeing 777 Cargo : 777-200F et 777P2F

Jeannot a écrit:J'ai comme un doute. Je pensais que le premier d'AF était déjà complètement "livré" mais que c'était le deuxième qui était parqué.

Jeannot a écrit:Petite question annexe.....

Ce ralentissment de la demande "effective" d'avions cargo ne va-t-il pas avoir une influence sur le 748F et donc sur son cousin le 748i ?

I heard AF is not happy with the 777F for a payload problem.The payload can't reach what was expected.For the moment i have no more precise details.Will try to get some more.

It is rumored they will not receive more than 4 units , and will not order some more in the future.

Problem is ; with what type of aircraft they can replace these 777Fs , since the 747Fs will leave the fleet , and probably the A330F is too small for them.

Another issue encountered is the compressible freight located at the front cargo bay in the 77F, which is another difficulty when loading the aircraft.

Jeannot a écrit:F-GUOA

Elmer. J'ai lu que le premier 777F (donc F-GUOA) d'AF avait été "rejected". Pouvez vous confirmer Sherlock Holmes ? Any reason ?

Boeing eyes 2010 launch of 777 converted freighter
By Brendan Sobie

Boeing could launch a passenger-to-freighter conversion product for the 777 as early as next year as it continues product development studies for the proposed 777-200 Boeing Converted Freighter (BCF) and 777-200ERBCF.

Boeing Commercial Aviation Services vice president freighter conversions Dennis Floyd says the manufacturer has been working with potential customers on developing requirements for both the 777-200BCF and 777-200ERBCF. He says the next step for Boeing, which first revealed last September that it was studying conversion products for both models, is to decide whether there is a business case to begin formally offering one or both of the products.

"Right now the earliest we're looking at is first quarter of next year for it being offerable," Floyd told the Cargo Facts 2009 aircraft symposium in Seattle.

He says the programme could be launched as quickly as three to six months after Boeing gives its sales team the green light to offer the products and try to secure launch orders. But he adds the exact timing of the launch "will be very much market driven".

Boeing sees a possible 2013 or 2014 entry into service for the 777-200BCF and/or 777-200ERBCF. Floyd says the market will determine which model is certified first and whether the 777-200 will be skipped entirely for the larger 777-200ER.

Figures from Floyd's Cargo Facts presentation show the 777-200BCF, which Boeing calls the "A market" aircraft, with an estimated 545,000lb maximum takeoff weight and revenue payload of just under 150,000lbs that can be flown up to 2,500nm. The 777-200ERBCF, which Boeing calls the "B market" aircraft, would have an estimated maximum takeoff weight of 650,000lb and revenue payload of just over 175,000lbs that can be flown up to 4,000nm. Both types will be able to accommodate 27 pallets on the main deck.

"Right now our product development study is looking at the A and B. We'll let the market decide," Floyd says. "Ideally I'd like to do both but it depends on where the market demand is."

Floyd says Boeing has "matured" the design for both models but is continuing trade studies to determine the exact performance specifications. A firm configuration could be finalised as early as the second half of next year.

Boeing envisions the 777-200BCF operating transcontinental flights and replacing the McDonnell Douglas DC-10, McDonnell Douglas DC-8, Airbus A300-600 and Airbus A310. The heavier 777-200ERBCF is seen as ideal replacement for the Boeing MD-11 on intercontinental routes.


Floyd says Boeing has produced 88 777-200s although one has already been ruled out for potential conversion. Boeing to date has produced 412 777-200ERs but Floyd says given the back current backlog there could be eventually up to 430 aircraft available for conversion. In developing the new conversion products Floyd says Boeing will try to leverage the commonalty between the 777-200 and 777-200ER as well as with the 777 production freighter.

The 777F, based on the larger 777-200LR/-300ER, has a 766,000lb maximum takeoff weight and revenue payload of just over 225,000lb which can be flown up to 5,000nm. Boeing began delivering 777F early this year and has since delivered eight of the type to four customers - Air France, AeroLogic, Emirates and LAN.

The ninth 777F will be delivered next week to a fifth operator - FedEx, which has 15 777Fs on firm order. Earlier this year a FedEx regulatory filing also revealed the carrier was in discussions with Boeing over potential 777 conversions.

Floyd says Boeing believes the 777F will complement rather than compete with the 777-200BCF and 777-200ERBCF. He says while some 777F customers may opt to augment their fleet with converted aircraft the 777BCF will also open up a new customer base as some cargo carriers only consider acquiring second hand aircraft.

Boeing plans to take the lead in marketing the 777BCF and use outside shops for the actual conversions, following the strategy it has used for the 747-400BCF and 767-300ERBCF programmes. "We have a good network of shops doing conversions and there's always more coming to us," Floyd says. "Our intent is to do it as a Boeing Converted Freighter contracted from us. But right now we're just focusing on doing the product development to offer it as a Boeing Converted Freighter."

Boeing uses Taikoo (Xiamen) Aircraft Engineering for 747-400 conversions, while also selling the kits separately to airlines that have their own conversion capabilities. Boeing uses Singapore Technologies (ST) for 767-300ER conversions. Both companies are obvious candidates for 777BCF.

ST Mobile president Joseph Ng, speaking to Flightglobal following his speech at Cargo Facts, says ST "will certainly bid for the conversions" for the 777BCF. He says if ST is selected for the 777BCF programme the conversions would more likely be done at its Paya Lebar site in Singapore, where it now does 747 and MD-11 conversions, rather than at its subsidiary in Mobile, where ST now converts 757s and historically has focused more on narrowbody work.

The potential launch of a cargo conversion product for the 777 comes just as Airbus prepares to launch a cargo conversion product for the rival A330. Flightglobal reported earlier this month that Airbus is seeing strong interest for a passenger-to-freighter conversion of the A330-300, which is already now being offered to potential customers, and could begin deliveries as early as 2012 if a launch customer is secured. Airbus Freighter Conversion vice president of marketing and sales Michael Fuerst, speaking to Flightglobal after his presentation at Cargo Facts, says the manufacturer will likely launch the A330-300 converted freighter by the end of this year. "We have good signs that we will launch this year the A330 [converted freighter] with an order," Fuerst says.

FedEx officially receives its first Boeing 777F today, and on Sep 24 will fly it from Everett to, I suspect, its Memphis hub. The 777 is the first of 15 on the official orderbook, though depending on who you talk to, it will more likely be the first of as many as 45 as the options and additional orders firm up.

There’s a couple of interesting points about this delivery from a cargo aircraft perspective. First, the order for the 777F came from FedEx after it ditched the A380-800F. The order was a massive blow for Airbus which was subsequently forced to shelve the 150t capacity freighter variant. Although the FedEx decision sounded the death knell for the A380F, the final nail in the coffin came after UPS also cancelled its A380 order in favor of additional A300s. Consider this, FedEx obtained the same capacity but with greater flexibility by simply swapping its order for 10 150t aircraft in favor of 15 100t capacity aircraft.

Secondly, the 777F – which is based on the 777-200LR, is FedEx’s first ETOPS-qualified aircraft. Although the company has been a loyal A300/A310 operator for years, its true long-haul overseas operations have been conducted using DC-10-30, MD-10 and MD-11 trijets. Now finally, FedEx enters the 21st century with a long haul twin.

The delivery followed the completion at the weekend of 'first of model' certification flights, with tests focused on unusual aspects such as the oxygen system for the supernumery crew position. Note the barely visible drop-down RAT (ram air turbine) emergency power device pictured after one recent test flight, and (below) check out a high power, low weight take-off sequence in this video clip.

Boeing is confident of securing a launch customer for its 777 Boeing Converted Freighter (BCF) programme by mid 2011, and expects the 777-200ERBCF will be launched ahead of the 777-200BCF.

The manufacturer began offering the 777-200BCF and 777-200ERBCF in the second quarter of this year. The 777BCF programme manager, Ralph Kramer, says Boeing has since been talking to seven or eight airlines about acquiring 777BCFs. But securing a launch customer in 2010, which Boeing last year said it was aiming for, is no longer likely.

"We're thinking now first half, maybe even first quarter of next year, would be launch," Kramer tells ATI and Flightglobal.

But he cautions that "it could go later. It's all about finding the launch customer. You don't do one of these - you need a significant quantity."

Kramer says one big customer or a few smaller customers could give Boeing the quantity it needs to formally launch the programme. FedEx, which along with UPS would be big enough to persuade Boeing to launch the 777BCF with just one customer, confirmed last year that it was evaluating the programme.

Kramer says FedEx is only one of several carriers interested. "We've had people express interest in the 777. There are two we are really working with and the next sub-circle would probably be five or six," he explains.

He categorises the interest in both these groups as "serious". After that there are several other airlines and leasing companies which have expressed "general interest" in the programme.

Kramer says at this point there are not any leasing companies that are considered potential near-term customers. "GECAS and some others are interested. They are looking more down the road."

Boeing previously indicated that the smaller and older 777-200 could be converted ahead of the 777-200ER. Kramer now says the -200ER "seems to be really gaining traction to a point that's what we are really focusing on". But he adds that Boeing is not dropping the non-ER and is still finishing compiling load analysis data on the 777-200BCF.

"We should be ready to go with (the non-ER) even if it came first but the ER seems to be the more market interest at this time," Kramer explains.

Kramer says data so far shows the 777-200ERBCF coming in at a payload of about 81,646kg (180,000lbs) and a range of about 4,000nm. Assuming it can secure a launch customer in 2011 as now anticipated, the 777-200ERBCF will enter service in 2014.

Kramer says Boeing aims to select a conversion shop for the 777BCF next year, about the same time a launch customer is announced or slightly later. He says Boeing issued a request for information last month to "about a dozen" aircraft maintenance firms with passenger-to-freighter conversion capabilities. Responses are due back "later this fall".

As in the case with the 747-400BCF programme, Boeing plans to sell the 777-200ERBCF as a completed conversion and as a conversion kit. For conversion customers, the modification will be done at the shop or shops it selects. For those airlines that elect to buy the kit, they can install the mod at their own maintenance facilities with support from Boeing.

Kramer says Boeing does not expect to offer a conversion programme for the 777-300 as only about 60 of the type were produced. Conversions for the newest 777 models, the -300ER and -200LR, are still at least several years away given they only entered service during the last decade.

For the 777-200, Kramer says availability is limited as there were only 88 aircraft produced, two of which have already been parted out. Of the remaining 86, he says 52 are not in play as they are currently operated by United, All Nippon Airways and Japan Airlines. United has no intentions of replacing its 777-200s while ANA and JAL operate their 777-200s domestically, which makes them unattractive for conversion given their high cycles.

Boeing expects more near-term availability for the 777-200ER. This type is much common than the 777-200 and Boeing specifically sees near-term potential on converting some of the oldest 86 aircraft.

Charts from Floyd's presentation show the 777-200ER BCF offering cargo carriers a revenue payload of roughly 180,000lbs (81.6t), give or take about 15,000lbs, and the shorter-range 777-200 BCF a payload of roughly 145,000lbs (65.8t), again give or take about 15,000lbs.

“The -300ERSF has 47 standard 96 x 125in [2.4 x 3.2m] pallet positions in total. So, overall it has 10 more positions that a 777-200LRF factory freighter or 5,800cb ft [164cb m] more volume. It also has eight more positions than a factory 747-400F,” Greener tells FlightGlobal.

The three Boeing 777-300ER aircraft are being converted by Avianor, an aircraft maintenance and cabin integration specialist, at its Montreal-Mirabel facility. Avianor developed a specific engineering solution to remove 422 passenger seats and designate cargo loading zones for light weight boxes containing medical equipment and restrained with cargo nets. This modification has been developed, produced and implemented within six days. All operations have been certified and approved by Transport Canada.