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Programme CSAR-X


Programme CSAR-X Empty Programme CSAR-X

Message par Xmaad le Jeu 8 Jan 2009 - 1:02

Le CSAR-X, Boeing HH-47 Chinook, premier vainqueur sur Lockheed Martin et Sikorsky
Avant recours près le Government Accountability Office
La clef reste l’autonomie et la charge utile

Article d’Aviation Week :

Recent U.S. Air Force
interim reviews of the candidates vying for the service’s $15 billion combat,
search and rescue (CSAR-X) helicopter replacement show that the service indeed
is much more serious about making sure the winner meets a spectrum of key
requirements – including those that help it survive a war-zone mission –
according to sources familiar with the effort.

However, concerns remain
among those who helped draft the service’s initial CSAR-X aircraft requirements
that the Air Force still may be focusing too much on range and payload –
factors that helped the Boeing HH-47 Chinook variant beat out Lockheed Martin
and Sikorsky in the first go-round.

That Boeing victory was
upended after the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) twice sustained
protests by the losing bidders, who complained that the service didn’t properly
consider the lifecycle costs of each proposal.

This time it appears the
Air Force is looking to make its decision as protest-proof as possible, sources
say, not only by making lifecycle costs a lower priority in determining the
winner, but also by making the bidders address the requirements more

As part of that desire to
meet requirements, the Air Force has granted an extension to Jan. 20 to deliver
a revised proposal. The initial due date was Jan. 5

The major concern of those
who helped draft the initial CSAR-X requirements, though, is whether the
Pentagon understands exactly what a good CSAR aircraft needs to do. A recent
DOD Inspector General (IG) investigation of CSAR-X requirement changes found
that those alterations are in line with the needs of special operations forces
(SOF) fighting the so-called global war on terror.

While CSAR missions – and
CSAR-X requirement development – fell for a time under the purview of Air Force
special operations, the service’s own Analysis of Alternatives (AOA) found the
needs of the two camps to be significantly different.

Indeed, in interviews with
Aerospace DAILY, current and former CSAR pilots and rescue personnel say what
they need – a maneuverable aircraft that can survive a combat zone and allow
stable medical treatment in the air and on the ground – often does not rank
high on the SOF priority list.

Take rotor downwash as an
example, they said. SOF missions don’t include trying to secure an injured,
possibly unconscious crash victim on a litter while performing tricky triage at
the same time, and these tasks are almost impossible under a small tornado of
wind. Hovering higher to reduce downwash isn’t an option in a combat zone,
where higher altitudes can make one an easier target.

Troubling finding

The IG finding, they said,
deeply troubled them. Comparing the CSAR mission with SOF operations
demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of the CSAR mission and needs, they
say. And even more troubling, according to rescuers, are recent remarks by
Pentagon acquisition chief John Young that he doubts whether the Air Force
needs a dedicated CSAR aircraft fleet for the mission.

On the one hand, some of
the material included in the service’s own CSAR AOA would provide fodder for
Young’s argument – a large percentage of CSAR missions were handled by the
closest available rescuers, not a dedicated aircraft. But the majority of
successful rescues were with dedicated aircraft.
Also, today’s combat zones
need a survivable platform unlike those in previous years, according to those
who have done the job.
Range, payload, electronic warfare, ballistics tolerance
and maneuverability all come into play, they say, and any one of those
requirements could prove key in conducting and surviving a CSAR mission.,%20Payload%20Still%20Key%20In%20Choosing%20CSAR-X

La présentation sur le site de Boeing du HH 47

Dernière édition par Xmad le Jeu 8 Jan 2009 - 12:09, édité 1 fois
Whisky Quebec

Programme CSAR-X Empty Re: Programme CSAR-X

Message par sevrien le Jeu 8 Jan 2009 - 1:40

Merci, Xmad pour cette information !

Excellente nouvelle pour Boeing ! Décision pleinement méritée ! Il faudra espérer que les adversaires ne feront pas les pleurnichards de nouveau, comme ils l'avaient fait la dernière fois !

Cela suffit, maintenant ! Rolling Eyes

Programme CSAR-X Empty Re: Programme CSAR-X

Message par Poncho le Jeu 8 Jan 2009 - 8:27

Xmad, sevrien bonjour,

D'après ce que je comprends la compétition est en cours et les offres seront remises le 20/01/09 ? N'est-ce pas ?
C'est le troisième Appel d'offre lié à la fourniture d'un CSAR-X. affraid (au passage le même nombre que pour les tankers...)
Boeing ne répond pas seul j'imagine...

On aurait pu appeler le sujet CSAR-X ? non ? Wink

Bonne journée

Programme CSAR-X Empty Re: Programme CSAR-X

Message par Xmaad le Ven 23 Jan 2009 - 20:46

La revue par Flight Global le 23 01 09

Choix en avril par l'USAF,

Lockheed/AgustaWestland's US101, SikorskyHH-92 restent en competition. Le favori reste Boeing :

The US Air Force has begun evaluating three bids for its $15 billion combat search and rescue (CSAR-X) helicopter contract, although the scheduled award date in April is subject to review by President Barack Obama's administration.

The CSAR-X contract has been in competition for about three years. The USAF's original award to Boeing
in November 2006 was overturned by the US Government Accountability Office (GAO), and losing bidders Lockheed Martin/AgustaWestland and Sikorsky also successfully protested against the air force's second evaluation process.

A third round of bidding finally began last November, with the deadline for proposals ending on 20
January, 2h after Obama took office.

All three original bids - Boeing's HH-47 Chinook, the Lockheed/AgustaWestland's US101 and Sikorsky's HH-92 - remain in the competition. However, the USAF has adjusted the disputed evaluation criteria in at least three areas.

Perhaps the most controversial change affects how lifecycle costs will be evaluated. In the first competition, the USAF distrusted long-term estimates for maintenance costs by the three bidders. Instead, it used data from its current Sikorsky HH-60 fleet as the baseline, a decision that Lockheed and Sikorsky successfully

Instead, the USAF allowed the three teams to submit unique cost estimates for maintenance man-hours. But
those long-term estimates also will be weighted lower in the USAF's evaluation than more near-term projections - a decision that Sikorsky openly opposes...

Programme CSAR-X Empty Re: Programme CSAR-X

Message par Poncho le Ven 23 Jan 2009 - 23:49

XMad, merci

Dans la suite de l'article, on peut deviner que Sikorsky pense être bien placé en terme de prix... Very Happy

Vive la crise !

Au final cet appel d'offre donnera certainement le ton pour les autres à venir ! America first ? ou Equité ?

Bonne soirée
Whisky Quebec

Programme CSAR-X Empty Re: Programme CSAR-X

Message par alain57 le Jeu 4 Juin 2009 - 22:12

CSAR-X… “Canceled for Convenience”

article a lire sous le lien, avec photos, trop long pour le mettre ici...
Poncho (Admin)
Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Programme CSAR-X Empty Re: Programme CSAR-X

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 15 Sep 2009 - 23:07

Bonsoir à tous IG Looking At CSAR-X Contracting&channel=defense

Pentagon IG Looking At CSAR-X Contracting

Sep 15, 2009

By Michael Fabey

The Pentagon Inspector General (IG) is still investigating whether contracting procedures were followed in the now-canceled $15 billion U.S. Air Force program to replace its combat, search and rescue (CSAR-X) fleet.

In December, the IG said it found the Air Force had violated no procedures in making certain key performance parameter (KPP) changes in CSAR-X aircraft requirements. The service originally awarded the program to Boeing for a Chinook helicopter variant, but after considerable controversy and repeated industry protests the effort was scrapped (Aerospace DAILY, April 7).

The same month, though, the IG launched another investigation — which has not received the same amount of media or public scrutiny as the KPP review — into work done by other contractors associated with the CSAR-X program.

“The CSARX-2 review looks at the CSARX support service contractors, which was not part of the objective of the first CSARX audit,” the IG said in an e-mail. “The first CSARX audit was to determine whether changes to CSARX key performance parameters were made in accordance with DOD and Air Force acquisition guidelines.”

In response to “concerns expressed by Senate and House Armed Services Committee staff,” the IG started another audit Dec. 9 into “advisory and assistance service contracts in support” of the CSAR helicopter program.

Those contractors can help with project management, research and development, technical knowledge and other related services.

Sources familiar with requirements developed for the Air Force CSAR-X program said they felt that some contractors had tried to nudge CSAR-X acquisition toward certain aircraft types.

Je le mets ici, mais c'est assez générique

Investigation de l'inspection général du pentagone sur les "consultants" assistant le pentagone dans la définition des appels d'offres.
Source de biais ?

Une technique vieille comme le monde... orienté les critères de jugement des offres pour être le mieux placé... Wink

Bonne soirée

Poncho (Admin)
Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Programme CSAR-X Empty Re: Programme CSAR-X

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Ven 23 Avr 2010 - 8:52

Bonjour à tous

En cas de retour du programme CSAR-X

Vu les grandes manoeuvre aujourd'hui

In addition to teaming for a new presidential helicopter bid, Sikorsky and Lockheed Martin are considering partnering for the US Air Force's revived competition for a combat search and rescue (CSAR-X) helicopter.

"Our relationship with Lockheed could have application on things like CSAR as well," says Scott Starrett, president of Sikorsky Military Systems.

Three weeks ago, both companies signed an agreement to partner specifically for the VXX presidential helicopter programme, offering a VH-92 design based on the airframe and engine configuration already sold to Canada under the CH-148 Cyclone contract, Starrett says.

©️ The Maple Leaf/Canadian Forces
Canada's delayed CH-148 Cyclone will enter service in November

But the VXX agreement falls under a broader memorandum of understanding between the companies that allows for considering other missions with different aircraft.

"We will address those one by one and make decisions one by one," Starrett says.

The air force plans to award a CSAR-X contract in fiscal year 2012 to replace 100 ageing Sikorsky HH-60G Pave Hawks. A request for information released in March lists basic requirements that closely resemble the performance of the Sikorsky UH-60M, although the USAF is not planning to award a sole-source contract to the company.

A Lockheed/Sikorsky partnership on CSAR-X could be based on a four-decade-old relationship between the firms, which have supplied SH-60 and MH-60 Seahawks to the US Navy as patrol and anti-submarine warfare helicopters.

The companies are growing closer after splitting apart during the previous round of competitions for the VXX and CSAR-X contracts. Lockheed teamed with AgustaWestland on an AW101 derivative to compete against Sikorsky for VXX and against Boeing and Sikorsky for CSAR-X.

Lockheed initially triumphed over Sikorsky on VXX, claiming a $6 billion award to deliver 23 helicopters. But US Navy officials substantially changed the aircraft and system requirements after contract award, forcing a major redesign of the VH-71A (below). The resulting cost overruns and schedule delays forced the Obama administration to terminate the contract last June.

©️ Lockheed Martin
The US Navy's changed requirements for the VH-71A led to its cancellation

The navy released a new request for information for the revived VXX competition in February, suggesting the programme could be split into separate aircraft to carry VIPs and communications and command and control equipment.

Sikorsky, however, believes its joint VH-92 proposal with Lockheed will allow the USN to buy a single aircraft to perform both missions at the same time. The VH-92 will be powered by two General Electric CT7-8D engines, each producing around 2,500shp (1,865kW).

"Our cabin and the way we would configure it would meet their requirements for cabin size," Starrett says.

Sikorsky plans to deliver the first CH-148 to Canada in November after delays.

Coup de billard à deux bandes
En lien avec le programme Marine One (c.f. ce fil)

Sikorsky et L-Martin poussent le S-92 pour le prochain appel d'offre CSAR-X
En misant notamment sur un package US Navy / Marines

Les grandes manoeuvres commencent


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