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    Boeing 747-8F et I


    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mer 14 Sep 2011 - 9:59

    Bonjour à tous

    Pas de contrainte spécifique pour l'espacement derrière le 747-8 par rapport aux 747 précédents

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/2011/09/13/boeing-747-8-wont-need-extra-separation/


    Boeing’s newest, largest 747 can operate as close to other aircraft as current 747s, according to an International Civil Aviation Organization ruling that Boeing announced Tuesday.

    Last year, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration imposed a temporary requirement that other airplanes generally stay at least 10 miles behind Boeing’s 747-8, about twice the requirement for the 747-400, because data was still being collected on the aircraft’s wake vortices.

    Since then, an International Civil Aviation Organization team of wake vortex experts from the FAA, European Organization for the Safety of Air Navigation, European Aviation Safety Agency and Boeing looked into the matter and found the 747-8 met the “heavy” designation, and separation criteria, that apply to the 747-400.

    “We promised our customers that the 747-8 would be able to operate in the same markets and routes they use for the 747-400,” Todd Zarfos, vice president of engineering on the 747 program, said in a news release.

    We did extensive testing to show that even though the 747-8 is longer, heavier and has a bigger wingspan than the 747-400, it does not create greater wake vortex effects. That means that airports will be able to operate more efficiently and not have to slow down operations to accommodate this airplane.

    Boeing is scheduled to deliver the first 747-8 Freighter to launch customer Cargolux on Sept. 19.

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    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Sam 17 Sep 2011 - 23:50

    Bonsoir à tous

    Livraison repoussée pour les deux premiers 747_8F
    Cargolux a refusé d'en prendre livraison !

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2011/09/breaking-cargolux-has-informed.html

    Les cérémonies prévues par Boeing et Cargolux annulée

    Etonnant pour le moins

    Bonne soirée

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    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Dim 18 Sep 2011 - 23:00

    Bonsoir à tous

    http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/cargolux-boeing-and-a-third-party-theres-more-than-meets-the-eye/

    Un petit lien

    Bonne soirée
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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Lun 19 Sep 2011 - 13:21

    Bon alors kessquisepasse à Seattle ?
    Le space needle a décollé vers mars ?

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/09/19/362225/cargolux-747-8f-dispute-linked-to-late-qatar-787-deliveries.html


    Cargolux's refusal to accept delivery of the first Boeing 747-8F, ostensibly due to a performance shortfall, is linked to an ongoing dispute between Qatar Airways, a 35% shareholder of the cargo carrier, and Boeing over compensation for delays to Qatar's 787s.
    Speaking on condition of anonymity at the ISTAT conference in Barcelona, one source familiar with the situation indicated that Cargolux and Boeing had previously agreed a framework for compensation.
    But after Qatar acquired its stake in Cargolux on 9 September, a new dynamic entered the picture - compensation for delays to the 787.
    According to multiple sources at ISTAT, Qatar's chief executive Akbar Al-Baker views the compensation for Cargolux as setting a benchmark for the sum due for the delays to Qatar's 787s.
    Qatar Airways was unable to comment on the situation.
    The performance shortfalls of the 747-8F have been known to customers for at least a year as production proceeded.
    However, according to sources, another customer remains locked in negotiations with the airframer over deliveries for its 747-8Fs.
    The customer does not want the early freighters it is contracted for, instead preferring to skip to a later group that have line-fit production improvements rather than reworking the aircraft it receives.
    These negotiations continue and may come to fruition as early as this week, said a source familiar with the situation.
    Boeing said that although the -8F is over its original specification weight, this is due to the extensive redesign of the aircraft that has taken place. It said: "After we set our original specification, we completely redesigned the wing, which is significantly heavier, but more than makes up for that in increased aerodynamic efficiency and lower fuel burn.
    "As with all our airplanes, Boeing will continue to seek further improvements in weight throughout the life of the programme."
    It said that while the initial freighter deliveries "will be somewhat short of initial specifications for fuel burn", it and engine supplier GE are working on further performance improvements.
    "Even at entry into service, the 747-8 will be a great airplane for our customers, and give them unparalleled efficiency and low cost."

    Et

    http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2011/09/19/whats-behind-the-cargolux-rejection-of-the-747-8f-delivery/

    Bon

    1) partie de gros bras entre le nouvel actionnaire important de Cargolux qui a aussi des Boeing très en retard en commande et qui veut à priori fixer la barre très haut pour les compensations
    2) les premiers 747-8F à priori semble difficilement trouver preneur, un autre gros client cherche à éviter les premiers rejetons de la famille génération 5 du 747


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mar 20 Sep 2011 - 8:52

    Mais keesquisseppasse Ojourdui à Merttle ?

    Wink

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/09/19/362260/cargolux-747-8f-delivery-becomes-highly-unlikely-this-week.html
    Extrait ...

    The 747-8 freighter contract dispute has made delivery this week of the new jumbo to Cargolux "highly unlikely" as the parties continue to negotiate, said industry sources.
    Cargolux is said to have cancelled a planned 23 September event with the 747-8F in Luxembourg. Cargolux was unreachable for comment.
    Boeing declined to comment on delivery timing for this week, and stated: "We continue to work with Cargolux to find a time to deliver its airplanes."
    Cargolux informed Boeing on 16 September that it had "rejected" the first two 747-8 freighters for delivery over a "contractual issue", halting the planned 19 and 21 September 747-8F deliveries.



    Ongoing negotiations between Boeing, General Electric, Cargolux and 35% stakeholder Qatar Airways centre on the freighter's performance targets, but at issue appears to also be Qatar Airways standing order for its GEnx-powered 787s, according to Flightglobal sources at the ISTAT conference in Barcelona.
    Along with the 13 747-8Fs Cargolux has on order, Qatar Airways holds orders for 30 787s and two 747-8s for VIP Government use, CEO Akbar Al Baker confirmed at June's Paris air show.

    Dans la balance donc aussi deux 747-8I VIP et 30 787 tous à Genx
    Dans la balance aussi probablement la motorisation des A380 de Qatar


    bonne journée


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mar 20 Sep 2011 - 8:57

    En complément


    http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2011/09/19/more-on-cargolux-weights-and-fuel-burn/


    The underlying cause for the Cargolux rejection (the airline’s word) of the delivery of the first two Boeing 747-8Fs is performance.

    Performance is based, generally, on two things: weight of the airplane and specific fuel consumption (SFC). If the airplane is too heavy, it may not meet the payload and/or range guarantees. If SFC is below specifications, range/payload may be affected. If you combine the two issues, a larger problem exists.

    It’s been well known for more than a year that the 747-8 was “heavy” and the GEnx engines burned too much fuel. Despite the two year delay, GE hasn’t developed a performance improvement package (PIP) for the 747-8 that will be ready before the end of 2013, according to sources familiar with the situation. GE’s priority has been the 787 program.

    We asked Boeing about the weight and SFC issues. Here is its response:

    Q — 748F is about 8pc overweight, more or less.
    Boeing: It’s misleading to say we missed our specifications. After we set our original specification, we completely redesigned the wing, which is significantly heavier, but more than makes up for that in increased aerodynamic efficiency and lower fuel burn. Our flight loads survey testing presented us opportunities to further enhance the airplane’s performance through further weight savings as well as to improve our payload range capability by increasing our maximum taxi weight, maximum takeoff weight, maximum landing weight and maximum zero fuel weight. As with all our airplanes, Boeing will continue to seek further improvements in weight throughout the life of the program.

    Additional information from us: We understand the 747-8F is 5,000-6,000 pounds heavier than the revised design.
    Q — Airplane is 6 to 8 percent short on fuel burn specs.
    Boeing: While the first airplanes we deliver will be somewhat short of initial specifications for fuel burn, your estimate is much too high. Even at entry into service, the 747-8 will be a great airplane for our customers, and give them unparalleled efficiency and low cost, including double-digit improvements in fuel burn and lowered emissions. And with the GE Performance Improvement Package in work for the GEnx-2B engine, coupled with a number of aerodynamic improvements we have identified for implementation, we are confident that the airplanes we are selling today will meet our customer specifications. As with all development programs, we continue to focus on performance improvement for future line numbers and retrofitable kits for all delivered aircraft to further improve the performance of each airplane.

    Additional information: subsequent to our posing the original question to Boeing, we were informed the SFC shortfall is closer to about 2.5%, which actually tracks with information we received last year.
    Q — Cargolux isn’t the only airline unhappy with the airplane.
    Boeing: Cargolux has said that it has refused delivery because of unresolved contractual issues, not because it is disappointed in the airplane. The 747-8, whether Freighter or Intercontinental, is a great product, carrying more payload farther and with greatly reduced fuel burn over the very successful 747-400 that it replaces. Our customers realize the value this airplane will bring to their operations, and will be pleased to have the airplanes in service.
    The first 747-8 Freighters to be delivered meet or exceed customer expectations for maximum payload capability, community noise, common pilot ratings, airport compatibility — including takeoff and landing-separation distances — and all low-speed takeoff and landing requirements. In addition, the 747-8 delivers greater that a double digit fuel burn improvement over the highly successful 747-400. The airplanes are better than promised in community noise reduction, achieving QC2 on departure and QC1 on approach — putting the 747-8 in one of the quietest noise categories for large airplanes.

    Additional information: That being said, we reliably understand (as we reported in our previous post) that another customer is negotiating to bypass early, overweight freighters that require rework in favor of later production models that have in-line modifications.

    Donc :
    - à priori à ce stade le surpoids du 748-8F par rapport au projet modifié est de 2.2 à 2.7 t (par rapport à un OEW autour de 200t, ça fait 1% de surpoids "seulement"
    - à priori le GEnX2B loupe le coche de 2.5% à 3%
    - Boeing pense pouvoir augmenter les poids (MTOW, MLW, MZFW) de l'avion et dispose des marges de manoeuvre au niveau de la structure (merci la nouvelle aile... qui des GenX ?)

    A suivre

    Bonne journée


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mer 21 Sep 2011 - 9:05

    Etonnant

    http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/cargolux-part-3-alternative-lift-to-the-rejected-747s/


    On the final night at ISTAT in Barcelona, a new scenario has been suggested in the continuing saga of the Cargolux situation.

    Cargolux previously said may seek freighter capacity elsewhere if an agreement with Boeing isn’t reached on compensation.

    Where, you might ask, is there immediate lift available?

    The answer, it was suggested, are 777-200Fs, owned and operated by….drum roll, please….Qatar Airways.

    It’s all speculation but interesting to ponder.

    Aviation Week has this story that contains more detail about the fuel burn issue and Qatar’s involvement.


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mer 21 Sep 2011 - 9:09

    En complément :

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/avd/2011/09/20/02.xml&headline=Fuel%20Burn%20Shortfall%20Behind%20747-8%20Delay&channel=comm


    Boeing, General Electric and Cargolux are in the midst of renegotiating the impact of a 2.7% fuel burn performance shortfall that unexpectedly prompted the cargo airline late Friday to suspend first delivery celebrations for the 747-8 Freighter planned for yesterday.

    Although Cargolux had earlier agreed to a form of compensation for the long-delayed aircraft and its acknowledged fuel burn issue, the deal was thrown out at the last minute by a trio of Qatar Airways representatives, who formally assumed a 35% stake in the cargo airline on Sept. 11. At a board meeting just five days later, Cargolux says it voted to reject the deliveries planned this week due to “unresolved contract issues.”

    The original deal between Qatar and Cargolux was reached in June, when an agreement was signed in Luxembourg by Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker and Cargolux President and CEO Frank Reimen. However, the agreement required three months to be ratified by the two governments, and formal clearance came through just a few days before the initial deliveries were due to take place; the first was originally scheduled for Monday and the second tomorrow.

    It is thought Al Baker’s group insisted that Cargolux receive additional compensation for the performance shortfall below initial guarantees promised by Boeing and GE. Program sources say the “disagreement is over how much is owed them.”

    Neither Boeing nor GE is willing to comment on the renegotiations.

    The abrupt turnaround in attitude at Cargolux toward the 747-8F is exemplified by statements made by Reimen as recently as Sept. 2, when he described the aircraft as setting “new standards in efficiency” and featuring “greater fuel economy and the lowest operating cost of any large freighter.” Reimen also described the stretched freighter as “a genuine industry game changer.”

    At the heart of the issue is a 2.7% fuel burn shortfall discovered during flight tests on the initial airframe-engine combination. GE is developing a performance improvement package (PIP) for the GEnx-2B engine powering the freighter, but this is yet to be developed and tested and is not scheduled to enter service until the third quarter 2013. Furthermore, GE and Boeing analysis suggests that even then it will account for only 1.6% of the shortfall, leaving an additional 1.1% still to be recovered.

    GE is building the first test engine to incorporate the PIP and plans to run it for the first time in January 2012. Boeing and GE also have agreed to continue with additional performance upgrades beyond the initial PIP package. These are aimed particularly at freeing up cargo operators from payload restrictions on longer-range routes. Lufthansa, which will take delivery of the first passenger versions of the 747-8 powered by the same engine, says the route structure on which it plans to use the aircraft means the shortfall will have no effect on its operations.

    The GEnx-2B PIP is based on the improvements developed for the upgraded version of the GEnx-1B sister engine, now powering the 787 in the final phases of certification testing. Although the baseline design of the 747-8 engine was originally finalized in May 2006, it adapted configuration changes made as a result of lessons learned from early tests of the -1B engine. Subsequent PIPs developed for the 787 engine formed the basis for the 747-8 engine upgrade when tests of the -2B on GE’s flying testbed revealed a fuel consumption shortfall.

    Où l'on s'aperçoit que le GenX2bdu 747 passe après le GenX1b du 787

    A suivre


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Jeu 22 Sep 2011 - 8:46

    Et ça continue donc

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/09/21/362387/atlas-air-nixes-order-for-three-747-8fs.html


    Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings has opted to exercise termination rights for three Boeing 747-8Fs that were part of a larger 12 aircraft order placed in September 2006.
    "As prudent asset managers, terminating the first three aircraft was the right decision for our fleet, our customers and our stockholders. We expect the remaining 747-8Fs in our order to be better-performing aircraft than those we have terminated," said company CEO William Flynn.
    Atlas stated the three early production freighters were scheduled to be the carrier's first deliveries in 2011. But Boeing subsequently rescheduled these aircraft to early 2012 and three more-recently built, better performing 747-8Fs were moved to the 2011 delivery positions.



    Of the nine remaining aircraft, Atlas plans to take delivery of three this year four in 2012 and two in 2013.
    The company plans to accept delivery of one of the better-performing 747-8Fs in October followed by two in November. The first three will enter ACMI service with British Airways.
    The decision by Atlas to nix the three aircraft is another blow to Boeing's 747-8F programme as last minute contract wrangling forced the cancellation of a delivery ceremony planned for aircraft launch customer Cargolux on 19 September.
    Boeing in 2010 reportedly shifted control of its 747-400 Large Cargo Freighters that ferry oversized components of the 787 from Evergreen International Airlines to Atlas as part of compensation to Altas for delays incurred in the 747-8 development programme.

    Atlas jet refuse ses 3 premiers 747-8F pour cause de perfo insuffisante
    Les autres, ils vont les prendre, en espérant qu'ils seront plus performants



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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par art_way Jeu 22 Sep 2011 - 8:56

    Merci Poncho,

    Connaissant les allemands, Lufthansa vérifiera de très près ses 747-8i.


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Jeu 22 Sep 2011 - 9:10

    Aux dernières nouvelles ils étaient rassuré
    Le déficit de perfo moteur étant compensé par l'aero meilleur que prévue
    Mais comme tjs, on ne sait pas par rapport à quoi ils comparent


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Jeu 29 Sep 2011 - 17:02

    Bonjour à tous

    Le différend pour être réglé entre Cargolux et Boeing

    Separately, we understand an agreement has been reached on the Cargolux 747-8F compensation but the contract hasn’t been signed. We expect delivery to slip into next month.

    A suivre
    http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/final-thoughts-on-787-first-delivery/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Ven 30 Sep 2011 - 10:46

    Ah ah
    Pb avec le timing des PIP pour le GenX ... et de modalités de paiement ?
    Qatar Airways semble y a avoir mis sa patte, mais pas pour les raisons évoquées jusque là

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/747-8f-row-linked-to-ge-issues-not-qatar-787s-sources-362723/


    Industry speculation that Cargolux's 747-8F contractual wrangle with Boeing is linked to a lingering dispute between 35% shareholder Qatar Airways and the US airframer about 787 compensation is unfounded, Flightglobal has learned.

    Sources said the dispute is more likely centred on how General Electric is handling the engine upgrades required to address performance deficits in the 747-8's GEnx-2B engines.

    Cargolux informed Boeing less than three days before its first 747-8F was due to be handed over at a glitzy ceremony in Seattle on 19 September that it was suspending the acceptance process. Both the airline and the airframer blamed the last-minute U-turn on "unresolved contractual issues", and Cargolux said the decision to reject the delivery of its first two 747-8s was made at a board of directors meeting on 16 September.

    Speculation among some industry observers linked the move to influence from newly installed shareholder Qatar Airways and its desire to use the Cargolux delivery as a way to bring Boeing to bear regarding compensation for its 787 delivery delays.

    However, sources indicate that there is no dispute between Qatar Airways and Boeing in respect of 787 delay compensation. Sources point to a more likely influence being Qatar Airways' knowledge of the 747-8 performance shortfall and related compensation terms as a result of managing the purchase of two 747-8I VIP aircraft for the Qatar government. GE and Boeing are developing a performance improvement package (PIP) to address just over half of the 2.7% fuel burn shortfall suffered by the 747-8's GEnx-2B67.

    However, service-entry of the PIP is believed to be at least two years away - with customers being asked to pay for the upgrade. The engine will need additional upgrades to redress the balance of the performance deficit, and there is the prospect of an additional charge being made for this PIP.

    Boeing and Cargolux declined to comment on the status of the negotiations, beyond saying that they were "continuing to work" on the deliveries and were in "constructive dialogue". Qatar Airways declined to comment about the speculation regarding its influence on the talks.


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Sam 1 Oct 2011 - 22:09

    Bon y a une date
    C'est bien un pb avec les moteurs

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2016370542_boeing01.html
    Autour du 12 avec Cargolux tjs client de lancement

    A suivre


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    Message par Poncho (Admin) Dim 9 Oct 2011 - 22:06

    Bonsoir

    Tu n'a pas l'air d'avoir été résolu entre Cargolux et Boeing
    Le CA de Cargolux fait état d'avancées, mais pas d'accord définitif

    Bonne soirée

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/cargolux-and-boeing-still-wrangling-over-747-8f-contract-363068/


    Having anticipated final approval of the purchase of the first two 747-8 freighters at its 7 October board meeting, Cargolux said it had made "progressin the negotiations over contractual issues", but had not yet reached a final agreement with Boeing on delivering the new aircraft.

    The European cargo carrier had said on 1 October it had reached a "tentative agreement" with Boeing, which would have cleared the way for a final delivery on 12 October, pending the 7 October approval by the company's board of directors.

    But Cargolux said firming of the order has yet to be achieved.

    "Cargolux announced today that Management informed its Board of Directors of progress achieved in the negotiations over contractual issues in respect of the delivery of the first two Boeing 747-8 Freighters initially scheduled for 19 and 21 September 2011," said Martine Scheuren, head of corporate communications for Cargolux.

    "Discussions over these issues will continue over the weekend. The company will provide an update as soon as an agreement has been reached," she added.

    Boeing says it continues to work with Cargolux on resolving the contractual dispute and "looks forward to delivering its airplanes."


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    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mar 11 Oct 2011 - 8:55

    Bonjour à tous

    Un seul 747-8I Green VIP livré cette année et si tout va bien
    Le premier 747-8I pour LHA au printemps 2012

    Voilà voilà

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2011/10/low-on-margin-boeing-aims-to-d.html



    AS VEGAS -- Citing change incorporation stemming from flight test, Boeing Business Jets president Steve Taylor says the first and only delivery of the 747-8I in 2011 will be "right at the end of the year".

    "There's not a lot of margin", says Taylor of the 747-8I, which is expected the new jumbo to be certified late in the fourth quarter.

    "We won't get three to five, the plan is to get one. And it's challenging," said Taylor today of the 2011 747-8I deliveries.

    A voir ce que Boeing va finalement livrer cette année en "nouveaux avions"

    Bonne journée


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mer 12 Oct 2011 - 23:11

    Bon ils sont finalement en cours de livraison

    Allez comprendre...
    Enfin voilà le 747-8F en ordre de service

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/commercial_aviation/ThingsWithWings/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog:7a78f54e-b3dd-4fa6-ae6e-dff2ffd7bdbbPost:e7721391-7186-4237-accb-5e1c704adcab&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


    Cargolux takes delivery of the first 747-8F today, with the second to follow tomorrow, but there appears little joy in the exercise (the first aircraft is to depart Boeing's Everett facility around 11 a.m. local time).

    It is a major milestone for the latest version of what may be Boeing's most iconic aircraft, the 747. But that the delivery is taking place with so little fanfare is perhaps a sign of how badly things have gone wrong.

    The 747-8F was supposed to be Boeing's easy, low-cost answer to the Airbus A380 -- it turned out to be neither easy nor low-cost. Delays have driven up program costs.

    The fact that Cargolux, at the last minute, refused to take delivery of the aircraft in September was a huge blow. And the fact it suddenly decided to take delivery of the aircraft today, gives Boeing and 747 fans hardly a chance to properly celebrate the milestone.

    That Cargolux and others are worried about the 747-8's performance just as the big day comes is a further dark spot.

    Compare that with the much delayed delivery of the A380. Even though Singapore was kept waiting by Airbus for a long time, in the end, the airline wanted to celebrate the handover as much as anyone.

    The Cargolux statement strikes a decidedly different tone:


    "Cargolux announced today that the delivery of the first two Boeing 747-8 Freighters initially scheduled for 19 and 21 September is proceeding on 12 and 13 October 2011 following the resolution of contractual issues between Boeing, GE and Cargolux related to the performance of the aircraft and the engines.

    In its meeting on 7 October, the Cargolux Board of Directors appreciated that the negotiation team (Akbar al Baker (Director), Frank Reimen (President and Chief Executive Officer)) and David Arendt (Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer) and Company management took the appropriate actions to ensure that the 747-8 entry into service issues be resolved successfully.

    Frank Reimen, President and Chief Executive Officer of Cargolux, said: ‘I am pleased that we have reached agreement on the contractual issues. The 747-8 Freighter will be a driver of profitable growth for Cargolux’.

    Launch customer Cargolux has 13 Boeing 747-8 Freighter airplanes on firm order.

    As an enhanced variant of the 747-400 cargo aircraft, the new-generation 747-8 Freighter offers a variety of benefits over its predecessor, including additional payload, less fuel burn and carbon emissions and a considerably lower noise footprint.

    A voir en vol


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Beochien Jeu 13 Oct 2011 - 1:10

    Bonsoir !

    Et Emirates était toujours dubitatif le 12 Oct ...

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/avd/2011/10/12/04.xml&headline=Emirates%20Wants%20Boeing%20747-8F%20Improvements&channel=comm

    Quant au GEnx 2B, qui à bien sa part dansles soucis, il serait amélioré vers 2012 !
    Toujours ces fichus décalages entre le promis et le tenu ... et avec un retard qui sera aussi de 3-4 ans par apport aux prévisions initiales, la même chose que pour le 787 !
    Espérons que RR fera bien mieux pour le A350 !

    JPRS
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Beochien Mar 18 Oct 2011 - 19:16

    Bonjour !

    Une énorme com de Aspire reçue chez moi ! Belle compil pour le 748 !
    Pas sûr de la stabilité des liens !
    A lire impérativement ! Article de référence !
    Je copie tout, bon courage ! Et bonne lecture, rien à jeter !



    Initial 747-8 woes will not affect aircraft’s business case


    [color=#555]
    Posted: 18 Oct 2011 06:30 AM PDT


    It was a sigh of relief when Luxemburg-based freight carrier Cargolux
    International Airlines finally took the first delivery of the 747-8F
    freighter, the cargo version of Chicago-based airframer Boeing’s
    revamped iconic jumbo jet, on 12th October and its second example the
    following day, after resolving a month-long dispute centred on the
    performance shortfall in the specific fuel consumption (SFC) of the
    aircraft’s General Electric (GE) GEnx-2B engines. This also put an end
    to the latest string of setbacks suffered by the beleaguered aircraft
    programme, which is already in a forward-loss position and whose entry
    into service (EIS) date was already delayed by 2 years as a result of
    diluted engineering resources and design changes.

    “I am pleased that we have reached agreement on the contractual
    issues. The 747-8F Freighter will be a driver of profitable growth for
    Cargolux,” Cargolux president and chief executive Frank Reimen said.

    “This is a great day for The Boeing Company and for Cargolux. The 747-8F Freighter is truly the queen of the skies for the21st century and will continue the promise of the 747 for decades to come,”
    Boeing Commercial Airplanes (BCA) president and chief executive Jim Albaugh commented.

    Notwithstanding the relief brought by the first delivery, the journey
    of the latest elongated version of the 747 aircraft family has in fact
    been a bumpy, if not a tumultuous, one. In its flight test programme
    which more than doubled the initially anticipated 1,600 hours required
    to obtain US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification, Boeing
    discovered a buffeting issue when its double-slotted in-board flaps
    were set in the 30 degrees position which eventually prompted the
    redesign of the 747-8′s main landing gear doors, in addition to a 2.3 Hz
    or plus or minus 2.5 cm (1 inch) flutter issue in the aircraft’s
    outboard aileron, which was ultimately solved by the ingenious invention
    of the outboard aileron modal suppression (OAMS) system by utilising
    the aircraft’s roll-axis fly-by-wire system.

    From a financial perspective, the picture is not any prettier. The
    aircraft programme took in a US$1 billion charge in October 2009
    following a fresh delay (“Boeing faces yet another setback with US$1 bln 747-8 programme charge,”
    6th, Oct, 09) and is a forward-loss position. The earlier challenging
    market conditions when the air cargo market was in a tailspin with more
    than 20% slumps in monthly traffic figures painted a bleak picture for
    Boeing’s offering in the niche very large airplane (VLA) market.

    Worse yet, after an extraordinarily robust 2010 recovery in the air
    cargo market as businesses replenished their inventories and the
    financial market expected to have a faster global economic recovery in
    the remainder of 2011 than the stagnant economic recovery in the
    first-half, the world is again on the brink of entering a double-dip
    recession owing to a renewed European sovereign debt crisis and the
    political gridlock in Washington when the 747-8F freighter was just
    about to be delivered.
    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 K65456-1024x791Image Courtesy of Boeing


    Performance shortfall
    Then it came the Cargolux dispute in which the airline refused
    to accept deliveries of its first 2 747-8F freighters on 19th and 21st
    September and forced the world’s second-largest aircraft manufacturer to
    cancel 3 days worth of celebratory events.

    The dispute was centred on a 2.7% shortfall in the specific fuel
    consumption (SFC) of the aircraft’s four General Electric GEnx-2B
    engines.

    “There was a shortfall of nearly 2.7%. We could not take an aircraft
    that is under-performing,” Qatar Airways chief executive Akbar Al Baker
    lamented.

    “Unfortunately, the management of Cargolux did not take the action
    they should have taken during the process of the aircraft acceptance. As
    we sit on the board of Cargolux, we have full right to object if we
    find something is not fair as far as Cargolux is concerned,” Al Baker
    elaborated. Al Baker became a director of the European freight carrier
    following Qatar Airways’ purchase of a 35% stake of Cargolux this June.

    The Cargolux dispute had originally been thought by aerospace
    analysts to involve Qatar Airways’ negotiations on compensation
    regarding the Middle Eastern carrier’s 35 787 Dreamliner deliveries
    which were delayed, but this contention was dismissed by Qatar Airways
    chief executive Akbar Al Baker.

    “It is absolutely unrelated. I cannot use Cargolux to get additional
    concessions from Boeing. There is no relationship between 787 delays and
    the Cargolux aircraft,” Al Baker reiterated.

    Regardless of whether Qatar’s 787 was involved in the Cargolux
    dispute, however, it has been known for over a year that the 747-8 has
    performance shortfall issues.

    For instance, according to Aspire Aviation‘s multiple
    sources at the Chicago-based airframer, the 2.7% shortfall in the
    GEnx-2B engines’ specific fuel consumption (SFC) could partly be
    attributed to the 2%-3% SFC shortfall in its sibling GEnx-1B engine
    powering the more revolutionary mid-sized Boeing 787 Dreamliner, as
    engineering resources were diverted to resolve engine fuel burn
    shortfall on the more popular aircraft.

    General Electric (GE) has since launched the performance improvement
    package (PIP) PIP 1 and PIP 2 on the GEnx-1B engine, with PIP 1 reducing
    1.4% of the SFC shortfall and PIP 2 reducing another 2.5%, thereby
    enabling the GEnx-2B to be in line or slight better than its original
    specific fuel consumption (SFC) target (“Challenges remain as Boeing 787 becomes reality“, 3rd, Oct, 11).

    “During our testing, we noticed we needed to improve our SFC, and GE
    has plans in place to ensure we meet the SFC targets on both engine
    lines [the GEnx-1B on the 787 and GEnx-2B on the 747-8] through the PIP
    (performance improvement package) programmes,” General Electric
    spokeswoman Deborah Case acknowledged.

    The performance improvement package (PIP) PIP 1 for the GEnx-2B
    engines will enter into service by late 2013 and will reduce 1.6% of the
    2.7% SFC shortfall. In addition, Aspire Aviation‘s sources who
    are close to the world’s largest engine manufacturer say GE may very
    well be able to apply the elements of the PIP 2 on the GEnx-1B engine
    onto the GEnx-2B platform, thereby recovering the remaining 1.1% fuel
    burn shortfall in the engine.

    Other aerospace analysts, however, are less concerned on the GEnx engine performance shortfall.

    “It is easier to improve engine performance than to improve airframe
    performance. Engines are intended to evolve on a continuous basis, while
    airframes tend to get upgraded in large, occasional blocks,” said
    Richard Aboulafia, vice president (VP) of analysis at Fairfax,
    Virginia-based consulting firm Teal Group.

    “Since the problem appears to now be more engine related, the odds
    are very good that the plane’s performance can be improved quickly.
    Given GE’s track record, it is extremely unlikely that the GEnx will not
    reach its targets, and therefore it is extremely unlikely that the
    747-8 will not reach its targets,” Aboulafia commented.

    Meanwhile, the early-built 747-8s are understood to be 2.3 tonnes to 2.7 tonnes (5,000-6,000 lbs) overweight, Leeham News reported.

    “It is misleading to say we missed our specifications. After we set
    our original specification, we completely redesigned the wing, which is
    significantly heavier, but more than makes up for that in increased
    aerodynamic efficiency and lower fuel burn. Our flight loads survey
    testing presented us opportunities to further enhance the airplane’s
    performance through further weight savings as well as to improve our
    payload/range capability by increasing our maximum taxi weight, maximum
    take-off weight (MTOW), maximum landing weight (MLW) and maximum zero
    fuel weight (MZFW). As with all our airplanes, Boeing will continue to
    seek further improvements in weight throughout the life of the
    programme,” Boeing was quoted as saying in the Leeham News article.

    According to Aspire Aviation‘s sources at Boeing, there were
    miscalculations of flight loads on the fuselage of 747-8′s original
    design in 2005, which led to structural reinforcement throughout the
    entire length of the fuselage. As a result, a significant amount of
    weight was added to the aircraft.

    The same sources also confirmed that the redesigned 747-8 wings also
    contributed to the weight growth of the aircraft, while adding that
    Boeing since then has found “many significant weight-saving
    opportunities” throughout the aircraft, “particularly on its wings”,
    which have delivered considerably better-than-anticipated lift-to-drag
    (L/D) ratio.

    The early-built 747-8F freighters, those sources say, are around 8 to
    9 tonnes overweight when compared to the initial design in 2005 but are
    only 2.3 to 2.7 tonnes overweight when compared to the revised design
    which features 787-styled super-critical wings.

    Though these improvements seemed to be a little bit too late for
    Atlas Air, which, citing “lengthy delays and performance
    considerations”, cancelled 3 orders for early-built 747-8F freighters.

    “As prudent asset managers, terminating the first three aircraft was
    the right decision for our fleet, our customers and our stockholders. We
    expect the remaining 747-8Fs in our order to be better-performing
    aircraft than those we have terminated,” said William Flynn, president
    and chief executive of Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings (AAWH), parent of
    Atlas Air, Polar Air Cargo and Titan Aviation Leasing.

    “The 747-8Fs represent a substantial investment in the growth of our
    business and are the cornerstone of our long-term fleet strategy,
    reinforcing our position as the most-advanced, most-efficient and
    most-reliable provider of outsourced aircraft and aviation operating
    services,” Flynn emphasised.

    Interestingly, Boeing’s arch-rival across the Atlantic, European
    Aeronautics, Defence & Space Co. (EADS) wholly-owned subsidiary
    Airbus, said in one of its presentation slides in its latest Global
    Market Forecast (GMF) this September, that the European airframer
    estimates a 5% performance shortfall in the 747-8I Intercontinental’s
    relative cash operating cost (COC) per seat in a 405-seat, 3-class
    configuration.

    However, Aspire Aviation‘s sources at Boeing caution that
    the 5% figure is likely to be skewed, as cash operating cost (COC)
    depends on many factors such as the stage length, seat configuration,
    etc., and that it would be difficult to identify the portion of the COC
    per seat shortfall for which the engine fuel burn shortfall and the
    overweight account.

    Direct operating cost (DOC) = cash operating cost (COC) + capital cost
    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 747-8-performance-shortfallImage Courtesy of Airbus


    Business case unaffected
    In spite of the challenges facing the 747-8 programme during development
    and flight tests, the initial woes suffered by the 747-8 is unlikely to
    affect the long-term business case of the aircraft, analysts say.

    “A few problems with customers at the start of a programme should
    have no impact at all on the business case. Business cases are designed
    around 20-30 year periods and dozens of customers. It all depends on the
    aircraft’s performance, however,” Teal Group vice president (VP) of
    analysis Richard Aboulafia conceded.

    And the 747-8′s business case is one which Aspire Aviation views as a sound one and better positioned than its arch-rival, the Airbus A380 superjumbo.

    For instance, the 747-8 is more suitable for carriers with a
    frequency-based business model, with it being able to retain the same
    number of flight frequency, thereby offering more flexibility to
    price-inelastic, last-minute business travellers who would otherwise fly
    on flights offered by competitors and result in spilled over demand. As
    these price-inelastic business travellers often pay the highest ticket
    price with airlines’ discriminatory pricing, they are a lucrative source
    of revenue and profit for frequency-based airlines such as Hong
    Kong-based Cathay Pacific Airways.

    For example, the introduction of A380 flights has generally resulted
    in a reduction of frequencies on numerous routes, as observed during
    Singapore Airlines’ launch of a daily A380 flight to Zurich,
    substituting the previous 12-weekly 777-300ER flights operated by the
    Singaporean flag carrier. As economic theories state the smaller the
    difference between business travellers’ preferred departure time and the
    flights’ actual departure time, the bigger the chance in successfully
    converting potential demand into actual demand, replacing two flights
    with an A380 flight may lead to spillover demand from business
    travellers to other airlines.

    While the A380 has proved to be popular with passengers and both
    airlines and Airbus tout that they are able to enjoy a revenue premium
    by offering better services and thereby charging higher prices than
    comparable flights on other aircraft, Aspire Aviation has
    learned that the Singapore Airlines Suites on SIA’s A380s are having
    poor loads as global economic uncertainties dent premium demand for the
    Singapore Airlines Suites whose prices are understood to be
    significantly higher than a typical first class seat.

    Moreover, the 747-8I Intercontinental has a considerably larger
    revenue cargo volume than the A380, which enables it to carry more
    revenue and profit-generating cargoes after fully loading passengers’
    luggage to more destinations, including places where cargo demand is
    insufficient to support dedicated freighter flights. As Asia/Pacific
    carriers transport around 40% of the world’s cargoes in terms of freight
    tonnage kilometres (FTKs), the 747-8I Intercontinental is better
    positioned from a cargo perspective than the A380.

    The A380 has a total cargo volume of 5,875 cubic feet and a revenue
    cargo volume of 2,995 cubic feet, whereas the 747-8I has a total cargo
    volume and revenue cargo volume of 2,995 cu. ft. and 3,895 cu. ft.,
    respectively.

    This capability would be crucial as carriers usually carry the bulk
    of their cargoes in underbelly capacity of their passenger aircraft,
    such as Cathay Pacific which carries 70% of its cargoes in the
    underbelly of its passenger aircraft.


    A380

    777-300ER

    747-8 Intercontinental

    Pallets (415 cu.ft)

    6

    8

    7

    Pallet Volume (cu.ft)

    2,490

    3,320

    2,905

    LD-3 (160 cu.ft)

    18

    20

    0

    LD-1 (175 cu.ft)

    0

    0

    16

    Container volume (cu.ft)

    2,880

    3,200

    2,800

    Bulk Cargo (cu.ft)

    505

    600

    640

    Total cargo (cu.ft.)

    5,875

    7,120

    6,345

    Passengers

    555

    365

    467

    Passenger bag volume (cu. ft.)

    2,886

    1,898

    2,428.4

    LD containers for bags

    18

    12

    14

    Revenue cargo volume (cu. ft.)

    2,995

    5,200

    3,895

    Source: Boeing

    However, the single biggest downside risk for the Boeing 747-8
    programme remains the global economy as it is nevertheless perceived as a
    growth aircraft instead of a direct Boeing 747-400 replacement, of
    which the most natural Boeing 747-400 replacement would still be the
    365-seat 777-300ERs as it provides an ideal platform for airlines to
    maximise their yields in focusing on premium cabins and carrying the
    largest amount of revenue cargo possible when compared to both the
    747-8I Intercontinental and the A380.

    As the global economy is currently at the brink of entering a renewed
    recession, of which investment bank Goldman Sachs estimates in an
    October 4th note that there is a 40% chance of the world’s largest
    economy – US entering a double-dip recession and its unemployment to
    remain stubbornly high at 9.5% in 2012, it would be the biggest
    challenge for both Airbus and Boeing in selling new A380s and 747-8I
    Intercontinentals in the short to medium term.

    “Challenges? For the -8F, arriving just after a serious global
    downturn, and just before a possible double-dip downturn, is unpleasant,
    particularly for a programme that is meant to provide the bulk of
    demand for a new 747 model. For the -8I, surviving Airbus’ heavy A380
    discounting is an ongoing problem too,” Teal Group vice president (VP)
    of analysis Richard Aboulafia commented.

    Last but not least, as the 747-8 progresses with the -8I
    Intercontinental beginning the final functions and reliability (F&R)
    tests and completing more than 75% of flight testing required before
    the US Federal Aviation Administration grants its amended type
    certificate (ATC) to the passenger variant, the 747-8 will be facing
    numerous challenges ahead, including rework which led to a single delivery
    of 747-8I Intercontinental in 2011 and the challenge to sell more
    freighters and Intercontinentals in times of economic uncertainty.

    Fortunately, the 747-8 aircraft family has a sound business case and arguably a better one than the A380 over the long term.


    JPRS
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Ven 28 Oct 2011 - 10:21

    Bonjour
    Petite question du jour :
    Quelle capacité maximale certifiée pour le 747-8I
    Le 747-400 est à 660 MAX PAX (550 sur le pont principal et 110 sur le pont supérieur) avec 5 paires d'issues type A sur le pont principal et une paire sur la bosse
    La config Corsair et à 582PAX

    A priori la config des portes n'a pas changé pour le 747-8I, ce qui implique normalement les mêmes limites qu'au -400ER...


    Mais il semble difficile de mettre 110 personnes sur le pont supérieur (la config type affichée est à 93 places, et ne doit pas pouvoir aller à plus de 100 places à 30" de pas ...

    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 747-8I-RC001


    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 787_747-8i_first_flight_together_1024x768_wallpaper


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par aeroduO5 Sam 29 Oct 2011 - 19:10

    Si le nombre et la taille des portes n'a pas changé, alors ça n'a pas changé.

    Il faudrait vérifier la taile des portes, notamment celle du pont supérieur.
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mer 2 Nov 2011 - 9:16

    Effectivement, voir la taille des portes, mais vu qu'à priori la section courant du fuselage est inchangée, je penche pour la même taille !
    On verra de manière sûre et certaine avec la certif, mais je ne pense pas trop me tromper

    Sinon livraison du -8F n°3 à Cathay (2nd client)



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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mer 2 Nov 2011 - 9:35

    Un petit lien

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/2011/11/01/cathay-pacific-gets-first-boeing-747-8-freighter/



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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mer 2 Nov 2011 - 9:55

    Bonjour

    Et on continue l'actu du -8
    Avec le -8I
    Qui semble avoir fini les essais nécessaires à la certif

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2011/10/source-boeing-completes-747-8i.html



    Boeing has completed certification flight testing on its 747-8 Intercontinental test fleet, the company confirms, setting the jumbo on a path to US Federal Aviation Administration approval later this quarter.

    After flying from Barbados to Houston today, the aircraft marked the completion of its systems functionality and reliability (F&R) flight testing, the final phase of its evaluations. RC003, flying as BOE440, signifying the 1440th 747 built, is currently enroute to Paine Field. The aircraft was non-instrumented for the trials.

    The airframer quietly announced in its 10Q US Securities and Exchange Commission last week that the first delivery of a VIP configured "green" 747-8I would slip to 2012, citing "a delay in flight testing and the time required to incorporate all flight test driven changes."

    While flying for FAA certification credit is complete, the test fleet of three aircraft will continue post-certification testing and additional validation of the VIP and airline interiors.

    Further, with the completion of extended operations (ETOPS) and F&R trials, the 747-8I becomes the first four-engine passenger aircraft to complete ETOPS evaluations. ETOPS rules were updated in 2007 to include four-engine aircraft starting in 2015, though Boeing opted to include it in the Intercontinental's certification ahead of the requirement.

    UPDATE: Boeing clarified the status of ETOPS certification for the 747-8I, saying that because it was not required by the initial FAA requirements it was not completed as part of the certification trials that wrapped up on October 31. Continued flying of the test fleet will include completion of the ETOPS validation on the 747-8I in the coming days, says Boeing.

    Because of overlapping certification efforts, the -8F will also be certified under ETOPS rules. The freighter did not undergo ETOPS testing because its customers did not require it for its shorter missions.

    Boeing began the 747-8I's flight test campaign on March 20 with RC001's first flight from Paine Field.

    Delivery to Lufthansa, whose RC021 served as test aircraft, will eventually become D-ABYE, is expected in the first quarter of 2012.

    A noter l'EtOPS valable aussi pour les Quad Wink
    Qui reste à faire pour le 747-8I, et c'est une nouveauté

    bonne journée

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-completes-747-8i-certification-flight-testing-364119/


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mar 6 Déc 2011 - 9:36

    Bonjour à tous

    le 747-8I en essais chez LHA , notamment pour caler et roder les activités au sol autour de la bête

    http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/boeing-plans-6-december-747-8i-frankfurt-visit-365609/



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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mer 14 Déc 2011 - 22:53

    Bonjour à tous

    Le 747-8I est certifié FAA depuis ce soir
    Un peu de lecture à venir


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Dim 18 Déc 2011 - 21:54

    Admin a écrit:Bonjour
    Petite question du jour :
    Quelle capacité maximale certifiée pour le 747-8I
    Le 747-400 est à 660 MAX PAX (550 sur le pont principal et 110 sur le pont supérieur) avec 5 paires d'issues type A sur le pont principal et une paire sur la bosse
    La config Corsair et à 582PAX

    A priori la config des portes n'a pas changé pour le 747-8I, ce qui implique normalement les mêmes limites qu'au -400ER...


    Mais il semble difficile de mettre 110 personnes sur le pont supérieur (la config type affichée est à 93 places, et ne doit pas pouvoir aller à plus de 100 places à 30" de pas ...

    Donc la réponse est :

    http://www.easa.eu.int/certification/type-certificates/docs/aircrafts/EASA-TCDS-A.196_(IM)_Boeing_747-09-15122011.pdf

    605 PAX
    Donc moins que les 747-4

    MTOW 448 t
    MZFW 295.3 t


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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Beochien Dim 18 Déc 2011 - 22:57

    Merci Poncho !

    Je suppose que c'est CC / La certification de la FAA ! Non ??

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    Boeing 747-8F et I - Page 13 Empty Re: Boeing 747-8F et I

    Message par Contenu sponsorisé


      La date/heure actuelle est Dim 17 Nov 2024 - 14:41