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24 participants

    Boeing 787 (partie 1)


    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Mer 1 Sep 2010 - 19:51

    Bonsoir !

    Vu par Jeannot chez les collégues (quote, seulement quand on peut vérifier même après ... pas tjrs aisé ) !

    Boeing sort la grosse Bertha pas sûr qu'elle porte de Chicago à Seattle, menfin ! Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Icon_elephant

    10 787 alignés sur le tarmac pour les essais, Banzaï, faut que ça s'agite, c'est la guerre aux délais qui vient d'être déclarée !
    Le Boss a du taper sur la table, à mon avis il est au bout du rouleau !

    Sur le blog de Scott Hamilton !
    Ce n'est pas une blague , lire la suite, et gare aux collisions sur les pistes !

    2 Questions :
    1/ Sont ils tellement en retard, pour sortir les Panzers ... sûrement, le 2Q à la vista !
    2/ C'est gentil mais avec quels moteurs ... Noté que les avions assemblés le sont sans moteurs !
    Kanban et just in time, des explications qui ne me suffisent pas ... à moi du moins !
    On peut juste espérer que RR et GE suivent la charge des cuirassés !

    Les Etops reviennent aussi sur le tapis, au passage !

    ------------ L'article de Leeham -------------

    http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2010/09/01/boeing-to-use-10-787s-for-tests/


    Boeing to use 10 787s for tests

    Boeing will use 10 787s to complete
    certification, a Wall Street aerospace analyst reported today in a
    research note, the first time this has been revealed.
    Richard Safran of Buckingham Research writes:

    Originally,
    BA intended to use six 787 test aircraft for certification. BA CEO
    Jim McNerney previously spoke about contingency plans to maintain the
    787 flight test schedule. One plan was to shift ETOPS (Extended
    Twin-engine Over-ocean Performance Specification) testing from the
    original 6 flight test aircraft to 787 #7-10. In order to prevent
    further delays to the 787 schedule, BA is now using 10 aircraft in the
    certification process. The engine failure of 787 #9 in ground test
    delayed certification (and first delivery) because RR did not have a
    replacement. Since BA is now relying on 10 aircraft for certification
    and given the difficulty getting 787 #6 into the test program (now
    slated for September), we think it’s possible first delivery of the
    787 could slip beyond 1Q11 to 2Q11.


    Separately. we inquired of Boeing about some other aspects of the
    engine issue (Rolls-Royce, as is typical, did not respond for comment).
    We asked Boeing why, after 2 1/2 years
    of delays, there were more engines available that could be used to put
    on the All Nippon Airways plane to maintain first delivery in January
    (December already having been largely written off by
    analysts)–especially considering that Boeing planned to have 30
    airplanes ready for delivery by the time certification was achieved.
    Boeing responded that engines are delivered “just in time,” a common
    supply chain method to control inventory costs.
    Indeed, of the 12 787s assembled but parked on the ramp at Everett
    (WA)’s Paine Field, where the 787 is assembled, none has engines.
    Why was the engine that had the uncontained failure at Rolls so critical to the program and ANA’s delivery?
    Boeing said that two engines are required for ETOPS and “function and
    reliability” (F&R) testing and are uniquely instrumented.
    “Some of this testing will occur on airplanes later in the production
    sequence vs the primary flight test airplanes,” Boeing told us. “This
    is not out of the norm for new airplane programs.”
    Unaware of the plan to use 10 airplanes when we asked our questions,
    we do not have information about the tasks planned for the extra four
    aircraft.

    JPRS

    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Mer 1 Sep 2010 - 20:35

    Bonsoir !

    Un petit tour chez "A.net" pour prendre la T°

    Un début d'explication du "Cirque" monté avec RR, pas forcément une excuse, mais on commence à comprendre pourquoi le "Boum" de Derby a tout désorganisé !

    Un Thread lancé par Keesje, (Quote) en développement !

    http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4916999/

    ------------- Extraits --------------

    De Keesje :

    http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4916999/#[/i]

    One plan was to shift ETOPS (Extended Twin-engine Over-ocean Performance Specification) from the original 6 flight test aircraft to 787 #7-10. In order to
    prevent further delays to the 787 schedule, BA is now using 10 aircraft
    in the certification process.


    That's why the missing Trent 1000 for the 9th aircraft influences certification.

    Since BA is now relying on 10 aircraft for certification and given
    the difficulty getting 787 #6 into the test program (now slated for
    September), we think it’s possible first delivery of the 787 could slip
    beyond 1Q11 to 2Q11.


    Would not be unexpected IMO, looking at the variety of known hick-ups in the program planning.
    ----------------------

    De : nyc 777

    Well
    before certain people start getting their undies in a knot because "ohh
    Boeing can't manage its test flight program and now they have to use
    production 787s for test flights"..it has always been the plan to use
    some of the production aircraft in the testing process towards the end
    of the test flight program. Not only were they supposed to do ETOPS
    testing but they wanted to compare ther performanceof the production
    airplanes vs the flight test airplanes with the flight test airplanes
    providing baseline performance data.

    -----------------

    De: Stich
    http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4916999/#

    NH might actually be happy to loan some aircraft for ETOPS testing since as I recall, the Japanese
    Authorities are requiring a year of NH operation before they will grant the necessary certificate. Perhaps NH can apply these hours towards
    that requirement?
    ------------
    De : TDScanuck

    Yes, but there are certification tests beyond F&R and ETOPS...

    Quoting Zeke (Reply 10):

    e.g. http://787flighttest.com/2010/01/ lists what tasks are assigned to each aircraft.
    Yes. But there are tests that aren't listed there for *any* flight test
    airplane that are required for certification, which means Boeing must
    have been planning to do them on production aircraft.

    The point is that "flight test aircraft" and "aircraft on which you do
    flight tests" aren't the same thing. A flight test aircraft is one that
    is built for flight testing and equipped for such. You can do flight
    tests on production aircraft (it happens all the time).[/color][/font]
    ----------------

    Pour le reste, ben allez le lire les amis !

    JPRS


    Dernière édition par Beochien le Mer 1 Sep 2010 - 20:52, édité 1 fois

    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Mer 1 Sep 2010 - 21:04

    J'ajoute ce soir !

    Ou ce plan de 10 avions pour les 787 d'essais, sur la fin, était lancé et connu des principaux fournisseurs, dont RR, et GE, et bon, il y a un pépin sur la route !

    Ou ce plan sort du chapeau de Chicago à la dernière minute et on va droit à un Chicago-gate (Ou Seattle-gate )

    Opinion tout à fait personnelle !

    Juste à suivre!

    JPRS
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Mer 1 Sep 2010 - 22:04

    Bonsoir !
    Il ne manquait que la com de Jon Ostrower sur le sujet !
    Ca tourne autour des Etops, bien sûr !
    Il précise bien l'ordre des avions, et les motorisations, ça peut aider !

    ----------- Le Blog de JO, Flightglobal ------------

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

    In another effort to avoid a further entry into service slide of the
    787, Boeing is reportedly adding four flight test aircraft to the
    fleet. According to a report
    by Buckingham Research, Boeing will add Airplanes Seven through Ten to
    the flight test campaign. All told, The Rolls-Royce test fleet will grow
    to seven and the GEnx test fleet to three. Airplanes Seven through Nine
    are all destined for ANA, while Airplane Ten will be delivered to LAN.
    The report suggests that the additional four aircraft will take part in
    ETOPS and functionality and reliability testing, suggesting that the
    aircraft will not require the extensive instrumentation unlike the first
    six 787s.

    ZA102, Airplane Nine, was set to join the flight test
    campaign this fall, but was derailed following the uncontained engine
    failure of the aircraft's Trent 1000s during a ground test in Derby, UK.
    Aviation Week's Guy Norris reports that the August 2 failure was traced to a build up of oil inside engine.

    JPRS
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Jeu 2 Sep 2010 - 14:24

    Bonjour
    L'update de flightblogger, Jon Ostrower !
    C'est plus clair, Boeing a répondu !
    C'est toujours le 787 N°9 qui s'est retrouvé sans moteur !

    Le panorama est devenu compréhensible ...
    Jusqu'à la prochaine ....

    Boeing avec ses test en retard sur le dos !
    Et RR avec son arbre MPT, KC autour du cou, et l'EASA, et les Etops sur les bras !
    Et une sacrée ambiance entre les PR des deux corp's !

    A suivre ...


    ------------- L'update de Flightblogger -------------

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

    UPDATE: LAN has selected Rolls-Royce Trent 1000s, not General Electric GEnx-1Bs, as previously posted. I confused LAN's aircraft with Airplanes 17
    and 19 for Royal Air Maroc, which were initially allocated as Trent
    1000-powered 787s, but were fitted with GEnx pylons during the assembly
    process.

    UPDATE 4:40 PM ET: Boeing statement on the Buckingham Research report:
    There will be limited testing on two additional airplanes for a total of
    eight airplanes (not four for a total of 10). The additional testing is
    driven by the requirement that some of the testing be done on airplanes
    in production configuration as opposed to flight test configuration. One
    airplane will do some ground testing. The other will do some flight
    testing.
    While it is known that Airplane Nine was set to conduct the flight testing
    portion with ETOPS testing and F&R, Airplane Eight is believed to
    be taking on the ground test roles. Airplane Seven, the first aircraft
    set to be delivered to ANA, will remain on the ground while it is
    prepared for handover in February.

    JPRS
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Ven 3 Sep 2010 - 11:03

    Bonjour !

    Jim Albraught doit faire face à la réalité !
    Ca ne va pas trop fort côté Alénia, beaucoup à revoir ...
    Et qq dépenses supplémentaires à budgéter pour le 787-9 !

    Et surtout ne pas se louper pour le 787-9, y compris avec de nouvelles technos, en // avec la sortie du A350 !
    Le 787-8, définitivement, ce sera juste pour se faire la main !

    Des mesures à prendre pour dans 2 Ans ...
    Si Martin Baker n'a pas fonctionné entre temps pour J.A et Mc Nerney, un siège biplace peut être !
    Le rachat d'Alénia, ça ne plait guère aux financiers, alors ... un ou deux nouveaux partner, une relance de Vought ?
    Et en trouver un avec la capacité, et la disponibilité ... ce n'est pas évident because le A350 occupe aussi l'espace !

    Le vent du boulet, pour Alénia et le propre Jim Albraught Voir le CEO !

    En tout cas BA s'agite pour la rentrée !

    ------------- L'article de Flight Global -----------

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/09/03/346931/boeing-continues-to-wrestle-with-alenia-787-workmanship.html

    Boeing continues to wrestle with Alenia 787 workmanship issues

    By [url=mailto://]Jon Ostrower[/url]

    While concerns about availability of Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines
    dog its 787 programme, Boeing continues to wrestle with workmanship
    issues on the aircraft's Alenia-built horizontal stabiliser.

    Boeing Commercial Airplanes chief executive Jim Albaugh says Boeing
    will have to "do some re-shimming and we'll have to do some analysis" on
    most of the existing crop of 27 stabilisers already delivered from
    Italy to final assembly in Everett, though "we're not too worried" about
    later units, thanks to Boeing personnel at Alenia's Foggia facility.
    Meanwhile, Boeing appears to be nearing an acquisition of a 787
    supply chain partner. Sources inside the airframer and its supplier
    partners are quietly speculating that the horizontal stabiliser is an
    insourcing candidate at a time when the structure is set to become
    significantly more complex for the larger 787-9, which will feature a
    new integral multispar box architecture and self-clearing laminar flow
    design to cut drag by 1%.
    Albaugh - who is notoriously deliberate with his words - says "stay
    tuned" for future changes to the balance between the role of Boeing and
    its suppliers: "Work is not an entitlement. We want to have long-term
    relationships, but they have to perform, they have to deliver value to
    us.
    "We're committed to our suppliers to the extent they are reliable,
    that they deliver on the promises they make to us, but we can't put the
    enterprise in jeopardy. We are committed to Alenia, but Alenia, just
    like everyone else, you have to earn your way on to the programme each
    and every day."
    Acquisition of troubled supply partners, however, appears to be far
    from an established Boeing strategy, with chief financial officer James
    Bell saying that "is not an approach that I advocate".

    JPRS
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Ven 3 Sep 2010 - 12:32

    Bonjour !

    Mieux développé dans le blog de Jon Ostower, de FG (Vu chez Jeannot )

    La fin de l'aticle m'intéresse, en particulier !

    Les PB de la queue du 787, et de la même queue du 789, juste en un peu plus grande !
    Sans forcément reprendre Alénia, ce que Boeing voudrait éviter !
    Le matériel et les outillages, pourraient être tentants, les racheter qui sait ?
    Et/ou arrêter le contrat .. Drôle de négociation en perspective !!!
    Ou peut être reprendre la queue du 789 seulement !

    C'est l'heure des décisions pour le 789 !
    Pour le design de la wing-box aussi, elle va être un peu différente, celle du 789 !
    Faire les outillages , dont les segments du fuselage plus longs, la queue, la wing box, les produire, les assembler, les essayer, pour EIS 2013 ... ben c'est déjà juste, hors pépins ! Gare aux nouveaux retards !

    Et ou assembler les premiers 789, un process qui risque d'être encore long, immobilisant, avec qq ajustements sur la route, et cela sans empiéter et risquer de bloquer la chaîne actuelle ?
    A suivre, mais ça promet un nouveau bumpy ride ...

    Noté aussi :
    Un changement dans le procédé d'assemblage, qui concerne toujours la queue, elle serait posée en tête de chaine ! Style B777 !
    Peut être cette copie du style d'assemblage du 777, pourrait précéder un jour l'utilisation de la chaîne du 777, pour intégrer qq 787, 8 ou 9, quand la demande des propres 777 baissera dans 2-3 ans !

    Va bien falloir les produire un jour à plus de 10/ par mois ces foutus 787 !
    Juste mon idée !

    ------------- Final du Blog de Jon Ostrower sur FG ----------

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2010/09/boeing-continues-search-for-78.html


    When asked if Alenia was "delivering on its promises", Albaugh answered
    obliquely: "We have people working in their factory right now."

    Industry officials, supplier partners and production personnel have
    quietly speculated the Alenia built horizontal stabilizer is on the
    verge of being insourced by Boeing, with the structure set to become
    significantly more complex for the larger -9 with a new integral
    multispar box architecture, as well as a self-clearing laminar flow
    design to cut drag by 1%.

    The complexity of this structure, along with Boeing's dissatisfaction
    with Alenia's performance, is believed to be motivating the company's
    push to bring the stabilizer under its direct oversight. Just days
    before the sixth slide in service entry was announced, Boeing's Board
    of Directors toured the 787 operations in Puget Sound, a move that is
    believed to have been a precursor to a supply chain acquisition.

    The company is thought to be evaluating sites in Washington at Boeing
    Field, Auburn and Frederickson, as well as Boeing Canada in Winnipeg.

    However, recent comments by Boeing CFO James Bell, threw cold water on
    that speculation that Alenia's Foggia operations would be insourced:

    "That is not an approach that I advocate nor suggest to our business
    leaders," says Bell. "And when I find myself in that position, it's not
    a good discussion with them, quite frankly. We have to work our way
    through it. Now, we will be looking at options. Alenia clearly is
    struggling...and they understand it is due to their actions, not
    something that we negotiated them so toughly that they cannot make
    money."

    Though despite Bell's strong conviction against a Foggia acquisition,
    the company's chief financial officer placed a caveat on his statement:
    "And we will have to see. An option could be to move it, but we're not
    going to buy Alenia. That is not an option at this stage."

    Though if an acquisition of the horizontal stabilizer is not in the
    cards, then that balance between Boeing and its 787 supply base is
    almost certainly set to change again. Albaugh, whose discipline with
    words has been a hallmark of his leadership, says directly "stay tuned"
    on potential future supply chain acquisitions.

    Production Changes

    Even with speculation swirling around what Boeing may do with its
    supply chain, inside the four walls of the Boeing Company, 787
    production remains in flux with schedule "floats" built into the ramp
    up to provide the supply base opportunities to catch up and limit the
    amount of travelled work flowing to Everett.

    Originally planned as a 30 manufacturing day hold in deliveries to final assembly, Boeing has shifted
    its schedule "float" to two separate blocks. The first, now completed,
    was a 10 manufacturing day hold following the arrival of Airplane 25,
    and the second a hold of 18 manufacturing days is now expected
    following the arrival Airplane 28.

    This second combined 28 days of schedule float is the second such operation, with a five week hold put in place in May.

    Inside the world's largest building by volume, Boeing is taking steps
    to find a rhythm to the production of its flagship program by taking
    steps to lean out its 787 final assembly operation. Production sources
    say the "Mother of All Tooling Towers" (MOATT) which is used to install
    the horizontal and vertical stabilizers in the aft fuselage of the 787
    will be removed from the final assembly line. Instead, Boeing will join
    the horizontal stabilizer in the soak area before going into final body
    join at position one. This change in production mimics the assembly
    process on the 777 horseshoe shaped line.

    JPRS


    Dernière édition par Beochien le Ven 3 Sep 2010 - 14:45, édité 1 fois
    aeroduO5
    aeroduO5
    Whisky Quebec


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par aeroduO5 Ven 3 Sep 2010 - 13:40

    Bonjour à tous

    C'est vrai qu'il va bien falloir décider des choses pour le -9 qui doit être le modèle le plus abouti. Donc pas de temps à perdre.

    On voit cependant que la queue concentre bon nombre de problèmes. Est-ce un élément difficile à conçevoir et à produire? Si quelqu'un peut m'expliquer: soit c'est un élément très compliqué, soit Boeing s'est planté dans ses calculs pour cette partie de son avion.

    C'est aussi étonnant de voir que l'on change les process de montage en cours de route. On parle quand même d'un élément de structure essentiel. Changer l'ordre de montage doit avoir des répercussions sur l'ensemble de l'assemblage.
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Ven 3 Sep 2010 - 13:59

    Les queues en plastoc, ce n'est pas nouveau ... et même commun depuis le A300 de mémoire, et en polyester à l'époque !
    Beaucoup d'inspections, et de suivi, fixations des charnières, appuis des actuators, délaminages etc, et pas mal d'AD aussi sur les A320 de mémoire !
    C'est délicat et pas facile à inspecter ! Airbus, pionnier des queues en plastoc, à déjà eu qq pépins dont une grosse cata sur NY !
    Donc méfiance et exigences sur le sujet !

    Et les mécanos agricoles de Grottaglia, faut bien le leur expliquer, rien à voir avec un garde boue de tracteur ! !
    Culture de pastèques SI !
    Culture Aero Nope !

    JPRS
    art_way
    art_way
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par art_way Ven 3 Sep 2010 - 21:50

    Bonsoir,

    un petit topo des 787 de test


    Boeing disperses 787 test fleet

    By [url=mailto://]Jon Ostrower[/url]

    Boeing's 787 test fleet has fanned out from its home base in Seattle,
    Washington as the type pushes through certification toward its revised
    mid-first quarter 2011 first delivery to All Nippon Airways.ZA001
    recently completed runway takeoff and landing performance stability and
    control (S&C) evaluations at Edwards Air Force Base in southern
    California, as well as wet runway trials at Roswell, New Mexico.

    ZA001 transitioned to southern California on 16 August and recently returned
    to Roswell on 2 September ahead of planned rejected take off testing.
    Testing at Edwards Air Force Base included velocity minimum unstick
    (Vmu) testing that saw the aircraft's tail scrape along the runway on
    takeoff roll to determine the minimum flying speed of the 787 at
    different configurations.

    ZA002 is currently participating in the
    programme's first international remote testing in Keflavik, Iceland,
    where the aircraft is taking advantage of the airport's perpendicular
    runways, all equipped with instrument landing systems and historically
    high winds for crosswind handling characteristics. The aircraft arrived
    in Iceland on 1 September and flew its first round of S&C autoflight
    evaluations on 3 September with crosswind speeds of 28kts to 32kts."We've
    been watching for the right weather conditions for some time," says
    Scott Fancher, 787 programme vice president and general manager. "The
    team was happy to see the forecast in Iceland met our needs and we
    deployed to Keflavik earlier this week."Boeing expects to certify the 787 for takeoffs and landings of up to 25kts of crosswind.

    ZA003 has been undergoing hot weather trials since arriving in Yuma, Arizona
    on 28 August, with testing in conditions in excess 38C (100F). Boeing
    says the aircraft is expected to remain on remote testing for roughly
    seven more days.

    ZA004 has spent nearly its entire time in the
    flight test programme based out of Southern California Logistics Airport
    in Victorville, California. Since 7 July, the aircraft has been
    undergoing flight loads survey, comparing loads observed on the aircraft
    to those modelled during the aircraft's design while measuring
    "external pressure distributions throughout the flight envelope", says
    Boeing.ZA004 is now expected to transition to Glasgow, Montana,
    says Boeing, for an unspecified next round of testing. Wokal Field in
    Glasgow traditionally has been the airframer's preferred site to host
    community noise evaluations to map the acoustic profile of its new
    aircraft.

    ZA005, the first of two GEnx-1B powered 787s, has
    remained at Boeing Field for simulated ice shapes handling and stall
    characteristics mimicking worse-case-scenario ice build up on the
    leading edges of the aircraft's wings, horizontal and vertical
    stabilisers.

    ZA006, Boeing's sixth 787 test aircraft has yet to
    fly, though was fuelled for the first time on 3 September at the
    company's Everett, Washington factory in preparation for first auxiliary
    power unit and engine runs prior to its first flight, which is expected
    late this month.Boeing plans to add two more 787s to the flight
    test campaign, Airplanes Eight and Nine, both in the ANA production
    configurations. Airplane Eight will be used for ground testing, while
    Airplane Nine will take part in extended twin-engine operation testing
    and systems functionality and reliability evaluations.Five 787
    test aircraft have completed more than 1,650h of flight testing covering
    more than 540 flights.

    Boeing expects it will accumulate 3,100h of
    flight testing spread across its General Electric GEnx-1B and
    Rolls-Royce Trent 1000-powered 787s.

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/09/03/346997/boeing-disperses-787-test-fleet.html


    _________________
    art_way
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Jeu 9 Sep 2010 - 10:10

    Bonjour

    Et revoila le number 6 : GE powered

    500 h sont prévues pour le programme GE

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/220694.asp

    Moteurs démarrés hier.
    Vol prévu pour la fin du mois

    http://kpae.blogspot.com/2010/09/dreamliner-six-engine-run.html

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/220694.asp

    Le ZA005 en est à 167 h...


    _________________
    @avia.poncho
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Lun 13 Sep 2010 - 11:19

    Bonjour à tous

    Pris ici

    http://www.fleetbuzzeditorial.com/

    Ca




    Meanwhile, ANA said that its operations will not be significantly affected by the initial 787 aircraft which are around 4 tons overweight.

    Our plan is to install the first 787s into short-haul routes so that the impact of being overweight will remain minimal,” Gunji noted.

    On the other hand, ANA has decided that it does not intend to restart its evaluation of Very Large Airplanes (VLAs) which once included both the A380 and the 747-8 Intercontinental






    J'ai la mémoire qui part en quenouille ou bien 4 t (8800 lbs) de surpoids c'est un nouveauté ?

    J'avais en tête 12000 à 14000 lbs



    Bonne journée


    _________________
    @avia.poncho
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Lun 13 Sep 2010 - 11:43

    Bon je crois qu'on l'avait loupé celui là

    Il est un peu ancien

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2010564599_boeing22.html



    Despite Boeing's strenuous efforts to reduce the 787 Dreamliner's weight, the plane weighed more than expected when it first rolled out two years ago.
    And days before the new plane's maiden flight last week, Boeing published a document for airlines that suggests to some weight-watching industry analysts that the 787 still exceeds its original target weight by a few tons.
    Airlines have ordered 840 of the pioneering composite-plastic planes based on Boeing's projections for its range, payload and fuel efficiency — all reduced by added weight.
    In an interview, 787 chief project engineer Mike Delaney insisted the weight has been stable for the past two years.
    And he said the Dreamliner will meet its targets for range and payload and still deliver on the original promise of being 20 percent more fuel efficient.
    The 787 "is still meeting that commitment," Delaney said.
    Weather permitting, the second 787 is scheduled to fly at 8:45 a.m. today from Paine Field in Everett, landing at Boeing Field in Seattle after its first test flight.
    Excess weight is a constant worry on any new airplane program. On the composite-plastic 787, the concern was amplified this year when Boeing discovered a structural flaw in the design and had to reinforce sections of the wing/body joint with titanium fittings.
    One number Boeing won't disclose is the basic weight of the empty plane — it never does during development. That fed speculation as the company made the modifications this fall.
    "The 787-8 appears to have evolved from a once-elegant composite design to one saddled with carbuncles of heavy titanium added throughout for strengthening," Morgan Stanley financial analyst Heidi Wood wrote in an October research note.
    Wood downgraded Boeing stock to the equivalent of a "sell," citing concern about the weight of the airplane, among other issues.
    Shortly before last week's first flight, airlines received a briefing document that listed the maximum allowed takeoff weight of the jet as 9.25 tons heavier than in the version published two years ago.

    Delaney said the document doesn't mean many tons of weight have been added. Rather, he said, it describes the plane's allowed operational weight, which Boeing has bumped up after its modeling and analysis showed the airplane structure to be strong enough to carry extra loads.
    That means airlines can load the planes with more fuel and thereby meet payload and range requirements, despite the heaviness lingering from two years back.
    Delaney conceded that, when the first large sections of the Dreamliner were built, the 787 indeed was heavier than projected.
    In 2006, the target empty weight of the plane was 108 tons, according to internal Boeing documents from the time.
    Because of "the initial weight issues ... in the 2005, 2006 time frame," Boeing either had to take the extra weight out or increase weight allowances to carry more fuel, Delaney said.
    Since then, however, Boeing's weight-control programs have kept the basic empty weight of the plane in check, Delaney said.
    Engineers have been able to counter weight growth due to design adjustments with a series of offsetting reductions.
    "By and large," Delaney said, "we have been able to stay fundamentally pat for about two years."
    Allowed now to carry more fuel, the jet will be able to fly fully loaded as far as advertised.
    But there is an economic penalty from carrying more weight. A heavier plane burns more fuel per trip, increasing fuel costs to the airline.
    Yet, Delaney insisted Boeing still will reach the Dreamliner's fuel-efficiency target: an average 20 percent improvement over today's airplanes.
    He said 787 engine makers Rolls-Royce and General Electric are working on improving fuel consumption. That, along with Boeing's weight and drag reduction and other improvements, will make up for the fuel-burn penalty that comes from bumping up the weights, he said.
    Nelson Klug, an engineer who worked for both Boeing and Douglas Aircraft and who now is senior director of consulting at aviation firm Avitas, said the various weights listed in the document — takeoff weight, landing weight, zero-fuel weight and others — suggest to experts the size of the weight growth in the basic empty airplane.
    "It's not unreasonable to assume that the operating empty weight is about 10,000 pounds (5 tons) heavier than what was originally on the drawing board," Klug said.
    Making a rough "back-of-the-envelope" calculation and feeding estimates into his computer models, he said that on a flight of 5,000 nautical miles, with all else the same, a weight increase of 10,000 pounds burns about 450 extra gallons of fuel. That would cost the airline an extra $1,000 or so.
    In addition, he said, even if the engine makers and Boeing do improve the fuel burn to compensate for that, the jet also will face heftier airport landing fees, which are based on weight.
    Delaney, though, remains confident Boeing can "continuously improve the airplane" and will meet the expectation that the Dreamliner's fuel and economic performance will be "a game-changer."
    Boeing began to communicate the new operational weight limits in the recent planning document to airline customers starting about a year ago.
    The figures include margins for added weight during development and adjustments during flight tests, and so won't need to be increased because of the recent wing-joint reinforcements, Delaney said.
    "We absorbed that into our development and flight-test allowance," he said.




    Donc
    Les 5 tonnes avancés
    +450 USGAL (1700 l soit 1.3 T soit 13 pax transformés en fioul) sur un trajet de 5000 Nm

    Ce qui se traduit par

    228 T de MTOW à partir de l'avion 20 (que l'on retrouve d'ailleurs bien dans le fameux papier d'Airbus sur le 787).

    J'attends tjs les specs finales


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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Lun 13 Sep 2010 - 12:15

    14 000lbs c'était SUH qui le disait pour le 787-9 en 2008-9 !
    Donc moins pour le 787-8 et de plus l'actuel doit déjà commencer la cure, vu les retards!
    Et 4 Tonnes, ben ça va jusqu'à 4,5T en arrondissant (Honnêtement)!
    Et il paraît qu'il y aura déjà un gain de poids après le 6eme !

    Aussi, les RR T1000, doivent peser les 2 ensemble +/- 300 lbs de moins que les GEnx, dry weight d'aprés wikip !

    Bon, j'ajoute après Poncho ...
    Le petit jeu des augmentations de MTOW, efface bien les PB d'emport !
    Évidemment l'efficacité en souffre un peu !

    Et le A350 est dans le même jeu 2 T tous les 6 mois ... !
    Le A400M n'en parlons pas on ne sait même plus ou il en est !
    Et RR va faire cadeau de 0,5 % de SFC au 787 ... ca valait bien un petit boum à Derby ... Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Bom

    JPRS
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Lun 13 Sep 2010 - 16:34

    Un petit lien pour une mise à jour d'un doc de boeing

    Il n'y a pas l'essentiel du point de vue des perfos

    http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/7878.pdf

    Par contre il y a le temps de rotation au sol pour Frequent Traveller


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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mar 14 Sep 2010 - 9:26

    Bonjour

    Je mets les video d'OStrower en lien ici

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2010/09/more-video-787-takes-on-the-ke.html



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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mar 14 Sep 2010 - 9:46

    Et hop !
    Je poursuis

    Essais dynamiques

    Cellule ZA998
    Partie pour 3 ans de torture (et plus... peut-être)
    Initialement prévu en T1 2009... commence donc en T4 2010 (ou presque)
    La cellule de 787 est calibrée pour 44 000 cycles...


    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/commercial_aviation/ThingsWithWings/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=7a78f54e-b3dd-4fa6-ae6e-dff2ffd7bdbb&plckPostId=Blog:7a78f54e-b3dd-4fa6-ae6e-dff2ffd7bdbbPost:c88e51d6-9ccf-426e-b850-92f1eb3f40b2&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest




    ZY998 is going to work.


    That is Boeing’s fatigue airframe for a standard-sized 787-8, which is beginning a three-year simulation of how well the industry’s first composite aircraft will hold up to everyday takeoffs and landings. The tests will be conducted round-the-clock, seven days a week.


    When Boeing officials briefed reporters on its certification test cycle in May 2008, they predicted the tests on the ZY998 airframe would begin in the first quarter 2009. That means the fatigue test program is running about 18 months behind schedule. (That’s better than deliveries, which are now about 33 months late).


    Fatigue test conductor Peter Brownlow says the daily testing will measure the wear-and-tear that 787s will experience in their lifetime. They are conducted in a metal cage that surrounds the entire 182 ft.-long airplane on the northwest corner of Boeing’s widebody manufacturing headquarters in Everett, Wash.


    Boeing has installed more than 100 mechanical devices to the airframe’s exterior to simulate the pounding it will face during a lifetime of service that typically lasts 20-30 years. The various test devices apply mechanical pressure through pounding, pulling and twisting to specific areas on the airframe, such as its leading edge, fuselage or vertical stabilizer.


    Fatigue testing simulates an entire flight, beginning with taxi through ascent, cruise and descent back then to taxi. The tests are aimed at creating a data set for the airframe’s durability, regardless of the multiple flight profiles that Boeing’s customers will put it through, says fatigue test director Ray Clark.



    Fatigue tests are different from the static testing that Boeing has underway on ZY998, the fatigue article’s sister airframe.


    ZY998 was designed to simulate extreme loads that a 787 might face in once-in-a-lifetime emergencies. The most pronounced of these was to pull up on its composite wings at 1.5 times the rate they would normally be expected to flex.


    In fatigue tests, Boeing studies the effects of long-term operations. They serve three purposes: they are necessary for certification; they aid Boeing’s designer team as it works on the higher gross weight 787-9 series, and they are an important reassurance in Boeing’s marketing campaign for the airplane, which introduces the industry’s first non-corroding composite airframes as a way forward because they are light, strong and resist age-limiting corrosion.


    Despite their different purposes, static and fatigue tests do have one similarity. They both measure the airframe’s actual performance against the predictive analysis that Boeing’s design team used to create it.


    The difference is that the static tests are measuring performance that pilots will see. Fatigue is more a measurement of issues that an airline’s overhaul and maintenance team must deal with. Boeing has been telling airlines that the 787 will last about twice as long in service as current generation aircraft before it will need serious attention from their O&M crews.


    A 787 is built for a nominal 44,000 cycle lifespan -- 44,000 takeoffs and landings. The fatigue tests will be conducted for certification at twice that number and actually involve some 165,000 cycles.


    Until the fatigue certification cycle is complete, airplanes that Boeing delivers will be limited to half of their demonstrated number of flights. But that is a restriction with little meaning since 22,000 cycles would be hard to achieve in just three years of operations.


    Normally, long-range aircraft like the 787, which will easily be able to stay aloft for 10, 12 or more hours on 8,000 naut. mi. flights, do not accumulate nearly as many cycles as workhorses like the 737, whose normal stage length is 400-600 mi. on flights lasting 1-2 hr.


    Still, launch customer All Nippon Airways plans to introduce the 787 on domestic and regional routes, such as into China, that will last only a couple of hours. So some ANA’s airplanes could build up cycle times quickly.





    Dernière édition par Admin le Mar 14 Sep 2010 - 10:15, édité 1 fois


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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Mar 14 Sep 2010 - 10:01

    La loupe est en option ??

    Bon, à part celà 44 000 cycles, à, disons 6-8 heures par vol ... en comptant les jap's !
    Même avec un bon % de sécurité ... c'est un avion prévu pour tenir 50 ans ou plus !
    C'est bien !
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mar 14 Sep 2010 - 10:16

    C'est mieux là Wink


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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Jeu 16 Sep 2010 - 8:17

    Bonjour !

    Vu sur le fil du Trent 1000 !
    Le ZA001, doit changer un moteur T1000 (8 Jours d'arrêt maladie, because SURGE) Boum au sol, pendant les essais de freinage !
    Une influence sur les essais disons minime !

    On en est tous réduits aux hypothèses, car ni Boeing, ni RR ne vont rien lâcher côté infos, et encore moins à leurs clients, passoires assurées du côté de la discrétion !

    Donc, un T1000 version A dans le sac, boum au sol !
    Un T1000 version A-B explosé à Derby!

    Bon, langue de bois oblige, des PR Boeing ou RR, ou Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 792682 , ce sont toujours des événements, isolés, non relationnés, et évidemment corrigés depuis longtemps pour la série, suivant le text book du bon PR, bien sûr ! Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 792682 Juste imaginer qu'ils disent le contraire les PR et autres T1000 CL, un coup à perdre sa place ! Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Icon_sad
    On a le droit aussi de ne plus en croire le premier mot ... disons que toutes les hypothèses restent ouvertes dans un sens comme dans l'autre ! Et ce n'est pas vraiment pour installer la confiance !

    On peut juste espérer que le ou les défauts, ont été corrigés pour la série B, sans pour autant avoir la moindre certitude !

    Il est heureusement temps d'en tenir compte chez RR pour le futur TXWB !
    De ce côté, une expérience bénéficiant à Airbus, merci Boeing !

    Le grand PB étant le crédit et la confiance des clients versus le RR T1000 ... pouvant se traduire par une baisse des ordres, pour les 787 équipés de T-1000, c'est là le risque !

    RR victime d'une croissance trop rapide ??
    Et ayant du mal à assurer et se consolider, dans son 2nd rang mondial, peut être durement et chèrement acquis, c'est bien possible, et un peu mon idée !

    -------------- L'article de FG, Flightblogger update 1 ----------------

    Breaking: Boeing grounds ZA001 following engine surge (Update1)

    By Jon Ostrower on September 15, 2010 2:04 PM | Permalink | Comments (0) | TrackBacks (0) |ShareThis

    Apture™
    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 4180416578_81060ea041Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Lic_c_gr by flightblogger


    On September 10, Boeing's first 787 flight test aircraft, ZA001, experienced an engine surge of one of its Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 engines during testing in Roswell, New Mexico. Boeing said in a statement:
    ZA001 experienced an engine surge. The replacement engine is already in NM and being installed. Boeing and Rolls-Royce are working together to understand the root cause but initial understanding is that this is an isolated event. There is no impact to other airplanes and no relation to the test-stand incident from earlier.
    Sources add the aircraft will return to flying as early as Friday or Saturday with a seasoning flight of the new powerplant, though Boeing declined to offer any forward looking schedule information on when ZA001 would return to braking and stability and control (S&C) testing. Business Week reports that Boeing says "it's too soon to well whether the 787's test schedule may be affected."

    An engine surge occurs when "the complete breakdown of pressurized flow through successivestages resulting a flow reversal of the air in the compressor."

    This could cause a range of results ranging anywhere between a momentary loss of power all the way to a requirement to shut down the engine.

    During development of the Pratt & Whitney PW4000 engine for the 777, the engine suffered a surge while flying under the wing of RA001, Boeing's first 747-100.

    This is not the first issue ZA001 has had with its engines, having experienced an uncommanded loss of power in February on one of its two engines due to a sensor malfunction, prompting a diversion to Moses Lake Airport.

    UPDATE 3:37 PT: Program sources say the surge occurred near the end of the testing day on September 10th as the aircraft was taxiing out for brake testing at a medium weight condition when a "loud boom" was heard by the crew.

    JPRS

    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Jeu 16 Sep 2010 - 8:59

    Bonjour !

    De Leeham news !

    Un 3eme report des livraisons pour les fournisseurs du 787, 1 mois !
    Boeing ajuste ses fournitures à ses retards récurrents, normal !
    Ca vaut pour RR ?? Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 382782 !

    ----------------- De Leeham News Scott Hamilton ------

    http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2010/09/15/787-stands-down-suppliers-third-time/#more-3503

    787 stands down suppliers third time

    September 15, 2010 Leave a comment Go to comments
    Boeing has implemented its third, 30-day stand-down for its supply chain on the 787 program. Says Boeing:As we have previously indicated, when opportunities arise we distribute flow in our production system to make the most efficient use of resources by ourselves and our global partners. We periodically align our production plans to meet adjusted customer needs, taking advantage of this flexibility in the market to further strengthen the 787 production system. This technique of balancing deliveries to most efficiently manage flow and customer requests within the production system is a common practice for our airplane programs.
    -----------
    JPRS
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Jeu 16 Sep 2010 - 11:48

    Bonjour !
    L'article de Guy Norris sur AviationWeek, rien de nouveau !
    Le 787 planté pour qq jours à Roswell NM !

    ----------------- Le lien -----------

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/commercial_aviation/ThingsWithWings/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=7a78f54e-b3dd-4fa6-ae6e-dff2ffd7bdbb&plckPostId=Blog%3A7a78f54e-b3dd-4fa6-ae6e-dff2ffd7bdbbPost%3A55a7c9a8-af94-4145-b324-1876f481ce59&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
    Poncho (Admin)
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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Jeu 16 Sep 2010 - 11:49

    Rien de vraiment grave en même temps !

    Non ?


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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Jeu 16 Sep 2010 - 11:57

    Bonjour,

    Et un article, penchant pour le côté rassurant !
    juste un update pêché, je sais pas ce que ça vaut !
    Juste pour réconforter le Jeddih ! Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 792682

    Les "Vraies" versions B du T1000, du moins on l'espère ... bientôt montées sur le ZA004 en Novembre prochain ... enfin du 787 décemment livrable pour ANA ??

    RR sûr de son coup ? Ca reste à voire, mais au moins ça avance !
    Vont pouvoir peut être arrêter de casser du T1000 A et/ou du A/B chez RR, et chez Boeing !

    -------------- Extrait , l'Update ! de All things 787 ----------

    http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2010/09/za001-experiences-engine-surge-with.html

    UPDATE: Sources have told me that ZA004, which will swap out its package "A" Trents for the package "B" Trents will have its engine swap starting on November 16th. The swap should take about three weeks followed by one more week of ground tests. ZA004 should be back in the air with the package "B" Trents around Decm. 14th...close to the one year anniversary of the first 787 flight.

    JPRS
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Ven 17 Sep 2010 - 7:49

    Bonjour !

    A prendre avec beaucoup de prudence ! pas de confirmation pour l'instant !
    Article dont le lien a été retiré ! Donc, un scoop ou une erreur ? Sais pas !

    AirInsight ne fait pas dans le détail ce matin, dans ce qu'ils m'envoient !
    9 mois de retard potentiel, pour le 787 et 12 pour le 748 !

    A la louche quand même ces estimations ! *

    Pour le 787 : un fait nouveau émerge, un retard possible de la certification des software du flight control, chez Honeywell, grave je ne sais pas, mais semble t'il inextricable, a travers des sous traitances Russes et Indiennes !
    On se croirait revenu 3 ans en arrière au moment des PB de soft des freins, de mémoire !

    Pour le 748, ben si il faut déplacer un moteur, pour contrer les résonances, ça va être lourd aussi !

    ------------------- L'article de Ernest Arvaï AirInsight plus de lien ! page vide ! -------------


    More Delays Likely for 787, 747-8

    Ernest Arvai | September 16, 2010 at 1:40 pm | Tags: 747-8, 787, Boeing | Categories: Boeing | URL: http://wp.me/pYdBy-67
    Just when there appeared to be light at the end of the tunnel for Boeing, the industry rumor mill is indicating that a series of new issues are emerging on the 787 apart from those associated with the Rolls Royce engine that Boeing has begun to discuss. Apparently, there may be potential certification issues with the Flight Control System developed by Honeywell, which is late in having software certified to DO178B standards.
    While we have not yet been able to obtain a firm estimate on the potential delay, it appears another 9 months delay would not be out of the question, given the magnitude of the problems.

    Honeywell outsourced much of its software development to Russia and India, and is struggling to complete testing of the various modules, complicated by language barriers and time zone differences. This would be a difficult task without the cultural differences, which are exacerbating the problem, and making another outsourcing look "penny wise and pound foolish.

    "The 747-8 has additional problems of its own, as severe flutter has emerged during flight testing. We understand that the problem is severe enough that correction may require repositioning the inboard engine as a solution, which would likely entail an additional 12 month delay in the program. While we haven't been able to confirm this, our sources indicate that a different cost-reduction decision within Boeing may have inadvertently contributed to this problem.Of course, this news comes on the heals of the WTO decision that was highly critical of Boeing funding, exacerbating Boeing's cash flow problems.

    The option for doing only incremental improvements on the 737NG broken by Jon Ostrower last week is now beginning to make sense -- additional delays will result in another billion dollar write off, and if WTO stops a funding channel, Boeing may simply lack the cash flow and engineering resources to pull it off.

    Is it time to sell short yet?

    JPRS
    art_way
    art_way
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par art_way Ven 17 Sep 2010 - 8:45

    Bonjour Beochien,

    Waouw !! si ça se confirme, ça serait une très mauvaise nouvelle pour Boeing.

    9 mois de plus pour le 787 ??? ça fera plus de 3 ans de retard (40 mois) Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Affraid

    Mais bon, c'est peut-être qu'un fake.


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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Ven 17 Sep 2010 - 9:04

    Non, pas un Fake,

    L'analyste est sérieux, la page AirInsight aussi, c'est dans la mouvance de Leeham et Scott Hamilton, et je reçois leurs com's direct sur mon mail !
    Par contre, un ring de Honeywell ou Boeing .... ils les ont peut être épinglé pour erreurs, ou xx autres raisons , bien possible .... cela expliquerait mieux le retrait de cette com !
    ------------
    Et on parle seulement de certification, les avions volent bien semble t'il avec les flight control Honeywel actuels !

    Donc, garder un œil ouvert, pas de fumée sans feu non plus ... mais 9 mois c'est sûrement exagéré !

    Etonnant au passage, de voir que les mêmes chaos générés par les sous traitances Russes et Indiennes pour ce cas !
    Aero, désign, plans, pièces, se retrouvent tout à fait, et avec les mêmes PB pour le désign, que des Softwares ... et avec pour tous les commanditaires ...., de sérieux ennuis pour l'assemblage final !
    Marrant Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Icon_biggrin ! (Pas pour Boeing Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Icon_pale )

    JPRS

    JPRS


    Dernière édition par Beochien le Ven 17 Sep 2010 - 10:52, édité 1 fois
    Rasta'
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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Rasta' Ven 17 Sep 2010 - 10:48

    Pour en revenir à un point souligné par Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 887739 , force est de constater qu'en entend assez peu parler du GenEx qui vole beaucoup moins que le T1000.
    Décidément l'envol du Dreamliner est difficile.

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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 29 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Contenu sponsorisé


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