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COMAC C919

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Poncho

COMAC C919

Message par Poncho le Lun 9 Mar 2009 - 22:40

Bonsoir,
On en parlait ici et là sur avia, voici un petit article sur le COMAC C919

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/COMAC030909.xml&headline=Comac%20Trunkliner%20To%20Fly%20In%202016,%20Named%20C919&channel=comm

Comac Trunkliner To Fly In 2016, Named C919

Mar 9, 2009
Bradley Perrett/Beijing perrett@aviationweek.com


China's forthcoming trunkliner will fly in about eight years, says manufacturer Comac, suggesting that the project has brought forward its service-entry goal of 2020.

The company has completed the preliminary design and feasibility study for the aircraft, which will be called the C919, says chief designer Wu Guanghui.

Comac says it is looking for foreign suppliers, including engine makers, and will choose those contractors at an early stage in the development.

The confirmation that the C919 will use foreign engines means that Aviation Engine Industry Corp., a subsidiary of Avic, will not power the aircraft, at least not in it early versions. That proposal from the Chinese engine always looked ambitious.

The aircraft is planned to seat 130 to 200 passengers. Comac is a Shanghai-based spin-off of Avic, which is now only a minority shareholder in the business.

Comac has previously said it would begin building the C919 in 2014, presumably meaning the prototypes. If the first of them flies in 2017, as Wu says, and Comac allows one or two years for flight testing, then the C919 would enter service in 2018 or 2019. That hasn't been specified, however, and earlier references to a 2020 entry into service were always vague.

Development will be very slow by western standards, reflecting Comac's great challenge in taking on Airbus and Boeing. The project can be counted as having been launched in May 2008, when Comac was established for the express purpose of developing, building, selling and supporting the aircraft. Development is therefore projected to last 10 or 11 years, compared with the six years now expected for the Boeing 787.

"Given what we know about the resources they have, I would have to say that it is a very ambitious schedule," says one western industry executive with experience in working with Chinese aerospace companies. "Could they make a first flight eight years from now? Maybe."

The Comac ARJ21 regional jet will have been in development for eight years if it meets its delayed target of entering service next year.

Critically, Comac has not yet achieved U.S. Federal Aviation Administration certification of the ARJ21, an aircraft that is serving as the industry's dress rehearsal for breaking into the mainliner market. Comac certainly needs to know how to get western certification for the C919.

It is more than possible that Comac will pitch the first version of the C919 at the domestic market, just as the first version of the ARJ21, the ARJ-700, is regarded as a product for Chinese airlines.


Pas grand chose de dispo sur le net à première vue sur cet avion...

Motorisation de l'ouest
Timing de sortie permettant en théorie de sortir avant les B737NNG et A320NG... de 1 ou 2 ans si on penche vers 2020 pour les avions précités... (encore que ça puisse dépendre de la durée de la crise...)

Bonne soiree

Invité
Invité

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Invité le Mar 10 Mar 2009 - 18:56

merci

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Beochien le Mar 10 Mar 2009 - 19:09

Merci Poncho !

Vu les délais ... Comac n'a pas fini de réviser les technos "Up to date"
Bon courage !
Airbus a 10 ans + pour amortir sa chaîne !
Peut être plus ! Et ils auront un nouveau modèle à ce moment !

A suivre !
Et on a apparemment le temps !

Rasta'
Modérateur

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Rasta' le Mar 10 Mar 2009 - 19:18

Oui, cela me fait bizarrement penser à la fameuse histoire (ou légende urbaine?) d'un A320 acheté par la Chine qu'on n'aurait jamais vu dans aucune compagnie. Je ne sais pas ce qui est vrai ou pas là dedans.

Invité
Invité

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Invité le Mar 10 Mar 2009 - 19:28

Je n'ai pas osé l'écrire, mais j'y ai pensé très fort...

Beochien
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Beochien le Mar 10 Mar 2009 - 19:32

C'est vrai, il y en a un qui a disparu de la circulation ...
Mais de là à pomper un avion qui a plus de 20 ans !
Mais les trucs, les méthodes et technos de A à Z vu les paquets de PB qu'ils ont à résoudre sur tout leurs avions .... ça peut aider VS les coûts de développement !
50 millions de $ pour en savoir plus, c'est plus que jouable !

Invité
Invité

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Invité le Lun 8 Juin 2009 - 2:01

Bonjour,

Un article du People's Daily, 2 juin qui présente ce projet.
Commercial Aircraft Corporation 919

9 fournisseurs sélectionnés par MoU. Et IAE prpose son V 2500

It was disclosed by a responsible person from the airliner project of Chengfei Corp.
on June 2, that the company has sent a team to Shanghai to help in the design of the COMAC 919 Airliner nose. The prototype of the airliner nose may be finished as early
as the end of this year and will be exhibited to the public in September next year.

Technology under research

Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (COMAC) has signed a memorandum of understanding with the domestic suppliers of COMAC 919 Airliner airframe.
The official contract will be signed at the end of year or the beginning of next year. Chengfei Corp. becomes one of the suppliers and is responsible for the production of the airliner nose.

According to the responsible person, in May last year, Chengfei Corp. passed capacity evaluation and sent out a team of four to Shanghai to form a cooperation team with COMAC to carry out the research and overall design of the airliner. On May 14, 2009, Chengfei Corp. again sent out a team to form a cooperation team with COMAC to start researching the technology of the airliner nose in detail.

The prototype

It is apparent that there is no need to make prototypes for some components of the airliner. A 3D effect is enough for those components. But it's still necessary to make a metal physical prototype of the same size for the airliner nose.

Chengfei Corp. will make a 7.9-meter-long nose by the end of this year or the beginning of next year. The prototype of the nose consists of a radar cabin, a pilot's cockpit, two equipment cabins, a front undercarriage cabin, a front service cabin and part of the passenger cabin.

It is estimated that the nose weighs about 10 tons. It will be exhibited in Shanghai in September next year after it is finished. However, before that people in Chengdu will be the first to see the airliner nose.

Cheaper than that of Airbus or Boeing

Wang Wenbin, general manager of COMAC said that COMAC 919, the home grown airliner with independent intellectual property rights, was planned to be first put in use by the end of 2014 or the beginning of 2015 and officially put into market in 2016.

It was expressed yesterday that Chengfei Corp. expects to produce 10 airliner noses every year after the initial flight of the homegrown airliner.

The current project under research is regarding the single-aisle airplane, like the current Boeing 737 and Airbus 320. Chengfei Corp said that the price of the homegrown airliner nose would be cheaper than that of Boeing 737 or Airbus 320.

An airliner is an aircraft with a weight over 100 tons after take off, including military aircraft, large transport aircraft for civil use and big commercial planes with more than 150 seats.

The current market for airliners is mainly dominated by Boeing from the US and Airbus from France. China began to develop its own airliners "Yunshi" in the 1970s, only two years after Airbus. Ten years later, "Yunshi" successfully finished its first flight. But
then the project for developing homegrown airliners stopped due to several
reasons. China restarted the important projects of developing homegrown airliners last year.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90778/90857/90860/6671090.html


Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 8 Sep 2009 - 14:15

Bonjour à tous

Un peu de nouveauté sur le Comac

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/09/07/331917/aa09-comac-unveils-model-of-the-c919-airliner.html


AA09: Comac unveils model of the C919 airliner
By Leithen Francis

Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (Comac) will unveil at the show a model showing the exterior design of its much-anticipated Comac C919 - the aircraft China hopes will establish the country as one of the world's top commercial aircraft-makers.

The C919 is a 130-200 seat commercial aircraft currently in development that China hopes to build in time for entry into service in 2016.

China's commercial aviation industry has decades of experience building regional aircraft and freighters but the C919 will be the first large commercial aircraft the country has built since the 1970s.

Comac, which has one of the largest stands at the show, is speaking with various western suppliers about recruiting them as partners on the programme. Engine makers including CFM International, General Electric, International Aero Engines, Pratt & Whitney and Rolls-Royce have been meeting Comac to discuss the supply of engines for the project.

Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) Commercial Engines also hopes to supply Chinese-built engines for the C919 but has conceded the first C919s are likely to be powered by western engines.

US firm Goodrich, meanwhile, is forming a joint-venture with China's Xian Aircraft in the hope that this new venture can secure C919 work.

The Chinese joint-venture plans to make landing-gear and engine nacelle components.

Une première photo et maquette du COMAC.
Quelques points :

1) importance du stand COMAC au salon Asian Aerospace 2009
2) Motorisation ouverte aux "étrangers" mais avec AVIC sur les rangs pour réaliser un moteur civil de cette taille
3) les équipementiers "historiques" se placent sur des Joint Venture avec les locaux pour ce projet et les suivants
4) question timing cet avion devrait précéder les nouvelles générations d'Airbus et Boeing. Pourra t'il bénéficier des progrès des motorisations

Bonne journée à tous


_________________
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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Mar 8 Sep 2009 - 23:34

Bonsoir,

Plus de détails sur le Comac 919 !

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/COMAC090809.xml&headline=Comac%20Begins%20Building%20C919%20Structure&channel=comm

Article en deux pages


Comac Begins Building C919 Structure

Sep 8, 2009

Bradley Perrett/Hong Kong perrett@aviationweek.com


Comac has begun building the first C919, aiming to complete the main structure of the aircraft nose by the end of this year.

Revealing a model of the A320-sized narrowbody airliner for the first time, the Chinese manufacturer says the standard version of the aircraft will seat 156 in a mixed business/economy configuration and will fly 4,075 km. (2,530 mi.). An extended range version will reach 5,555 km.

Dimensions of the C919 also are now available: a span of 35.4 meters (116 ft. 3 in.) with winglets (33.6 meters without) and a length of 38.6 meters.

Although the aircraft structure will presumably be original, the designers have chosen a body cross section almost exactly the same as that of the A320: a width of 3.96 meters and height of 4.166 meters, compared with 3.95 by 4.14 meters for the Airbus. The 737's much older cross section measures 3.76 by 4.11 meters.

The internal width, determining seat and aisle measurements, should therefore be about the same as the A320's, unless Comac can reduce the thickness of the walls. The company says that its design objective is to produce an aircraft that advances comfort and efficiency while reducing pollution and maintaining safety.

One reason for adopting a cross section almost the same as the A320's would be to fit the same containers in the hold.

The C919's fuselage cross sectional area will be 12.915 square meters, says Comac.

The payload will be at least 20.4 metric tons (45,000 lb), with an assumed load per passenger of 102 kg.

"The overall aim of the C919 program is to supply the civil aircraft market in eight to 10 years with a short- to medium-range, single-aisle transport aircraft that is safe, comfortable, fuel efficient, environmentally friendly and competitive," says Comac.

Construction of the nose formally began on Sept. 1. That work is far ahead of the rest of the aircraft, for which airframe, system and engine suppliers have not yet been chosen.

Weights of the C919 are not disclosed, but should be lighter than those of the older aircraft of equivalent payload and range. Modern engines alone should reduce weight significantly thanks to lower fuel burn.

The cruising speed of the C919 will be Mach 0.785 and maximum altitude 12,100 meters (39,800 ft.), Comac says.

First flight is due in 2014 and certification and entry into service in 2016.

Comac is Shanghai company split off from national aeronautics conglomerate Avic. Its assets include the former Avic 1 Commercial Aircraft Co. (developer of the ARJ21 regional jet) and the Shanghai Aircraft Manufacturing Factory.

The announcement was made at Reed's Asian Aerospace exhibition held in Hong Kong this week, just two weeks before a competing show in Beijing.

Airbus, Boeing, some smaller airframe manufacturers and major Asian maintenance providers have stands at the show, but most of the engine and system companies are absent. A conference held as part of the exhibition has attracted top speakers, including Comac Assistant General Manager Wang Wenbin.


Quelques caractéristiques dimensionnelles intéressantes :

1) Section similaire mais supérieure de quelques centimètres à celles de l'A320... Possibilité, avec des aménagements internes modernes que cette marge soit plus importante à l'intérieur.
2) Longueur de 38.6 m soit un peu plus que l'A320 (37.57 m) mais significativement moins que l'A321.
3) Envergure de 33.6 hors winglets (35.4 total) à comparer de 34.10 sur l'A320 qui dispose lui uniquement de wingtip fence (quelle envergure pour l'A320 de test avec les winglets ?)
4) la distance franchissable type s'établit entre 4075 et 5555 km (version ER) à comparer avec les 4800 / 5700 km de l'A320 (C919 158 pax contre 150 pour l'A320)
5) la construction a débuté par le nez...

Commentaires :
a) les specs actuelles sont très très très proches de l'A320. Dont on pourrait imaginer que le comac en est une version optimisée
b) compte de tenu de ces caractéristiques très proches, il sera assez facile de faire des comparaisons le moment venu !

Bonne soirée à tous


_________________
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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Ven 11 Sep 2009 - 11:17

Bonjour à tous

Sur Things with wingd (Aviation week)


C919 design mystery
Posted by Bradley Perrett at 9/10/2009 9:10 PM CDT

Now here's a mystery:

The Comac C919 will have much lower fuel burn than its Western predecessors, due to engine, aerodynamic and structural efficiency.

The Chinese narrow body will have only one more row of seats than the A320 and won't fly any further. So its fuel load should be much lower, with the usual virtuous cycle of weight reductions: smaller wing, less weight, less drag, lighter structure, less fuel again, and so on.

But the span is actually greater than the A320's.

Does this reflect Comac's lack of confidence in its own abilities to control weight? Or have the designers decided to burden the aircraft with an oversized wing (and oversized 30,000 lb. engines) so that it can operate from hot and high airfields?

Construction has now begun on the C919, the first all-new 150-seater in more than two decades and the rising challenger to the Airbus-Boeing duopoly.

We will review the program, its implications for the duopoly, and the technical specifications of the aircraft on the Aviation Week Intelligence Network and in the September 14 edition of Aviation Week & Space Technology.


La suite des interrogations sur le C919.
Les dimensions sont similaires à celles de l'A320 (pour simplifier... il s'agit d'un A320 un peu rallongé). L'envergure est similaire... mais si dans l'article elle est mentionnée comme plus grande, il faut prendre en compte que le C919 a des winglets qui étendent cette envergure... (de même les fences de l'A320 modifient également probablement l'envergure).
Les performances sont annoncées similaires

Les supputations sont :
1) Nouvelles motorisations consommation moindre
2) cellule optimisée
1) + 2) pour faire la même mission que l'A320 (en terme de distance franchissable) le besoins en carburants sont inférieurs... la cellule devrait être plus légère (OEW et MTOW).

Bonne journée à tous


_________________
@avia.poncho

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 14 Sep 2009 - 13:48

Bonjour à tous

Un long article sur le C919 ici http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/C91909149.xml&headline=Comac To Pick C919 Suppliers This Year&channel=awst


[b]Comac To Pick C919 Suppliers This Year[b]

Sep 13, 2009
Bradley Perrett

The sun may be setting on the Airbus-Boeing duopoly.
Comac, the company that China set up last year to break the Western stranglehold on commercial jet aircraft manufacturing, has now begun constructing its C919 narrow-body airliner. It is striving to complete that initial effort, manufacturing of the nose section for the first prototype, by year-end.
The cutting and joining of metal that began Sept. 1 also marks the start of building the world’s first all-new airliner in the dominant 150-seat class in more than two decades.

Comac is likely to decide by the end of this year which companies it will choose from the array of domestic and Western suppliers lining up to equip and help build the aircraft.
A model and specifications revealed at the Asian Aerospace International Exhibition and Congress here Sept. 8-10 confirm that the aircraft is a new-technology successor to the Airbus A320 and Boeing 737 (see p. 28).

The arrival of an ambitious, government-backed insurgent in the commercial jetliner market is prompting comparisons with the establishment of Airbus four decades ago.
There are important reservations, however. Unlike Airbus then, Comac is not based on companies that are already experienced in developing commercial jet aircraft. It has not one aircraft in operation with any airline anywhere, and therefore no reputation for building and supporting airliners that perform reliably and efficiently in the daily grind of commercial service.
But the risk is that Comac, like Airbus, will be underestimated—until it finally elbows its way to the center of the global aeronautics stage.

Despite its roots in a Communist defense industry, the company is adopting a highly commercial approach to the program. It is requesting competing bids for C919 work even from compatriot companies, units of Avic. The aircraft structure has been reserved for Chinese suppliers, but none has an automatic right to work on the C919, says Comac Assistant General Manager Wang Wenbin.
“That was our old way of doing it, but not any more,” Wang tells Aviation Week. “This time we must change. The structural work will be allocated by tender, because we must be able to control the schedule and the quality.”
And to keep on schedule, suppliers would have to be chosen “very soon,” he adds.

Comac has given itself eight years to develop the C919, the same length of time that it now expects to need for its first project, the ARJ21 regional jet, which was launched in 2002 and is now expected to enter service late next year.

The C919 is due to fly in 2014, to receive certification in 2016 and go into service in the same year. The project was launched last year.
To varying degrees, Western executives are skeptical that Comac can achieve that schedule, but no one doubts the company has a strong reason to rush.

“They want to have this aircraft before Boeing and Airbus deliver their next-generation aircraft,” says one executive whose company is bidding to be a supplier.
If Comac can meet its schedule, then for a few years it will offer a far more advanced narrowbody than its U.S. and European rivals can. The earlier it delivers, the longer the window of opportunity.

Another difference between Comac now and Airbus in 1969 is that Comac is not coming to market with a new airliner concept. Airbus invented the wide-body twinjet; Comac is trying only to refine the 150-seat narrowbody.
Moreover, it is not clear that the 150-seater has a future as strong as its past. Airbus, Boeing and the global airline market could yet decide that the commercial aircraft built and operated in the largest volumes in the 2020s and 2030s should be 200-seaters—perhaps even small wide-body twins.

Comac began building the nose of the first prototype on Sept. 1. Western engineers assume that the nose work began far ahead of constructing the rest of the aircraft because that is one airframe section that Comac is not handing out to suppliers and because a jetliner’s nose structure is especially difficult.

It is also likely that Comac wants that section ready as early as possible to support cockpit development, they say.
To power the C919, Comac is expected to choose between the Pratt & Whitney PW1000G geared turbofan and the CFM International Leap-X engine, which has a conventional, direct-drive fan.

The schedule looks tight for CFM, since the company says its engine will be “ready in 2016.” Commercial aircraft engines are normally certified well ahead of the aircraft they power, but Fabienne Lacorre, general manager of product strategy and marketing at CFM, says Comac’s time frame represents no problem for her company.
The PW1000G is well into development for the Mitsubishi Regional Jet and Bombardier C Series, although Pratt & Whitney would have to develop a new member of the family for the C919, which requires 30,000 lb. thrust from each engine.
CFM has an advantage in the relationship that its part-owner General Electric has developed with Comac as engine supplier to the ARJ21. Moreover, industry sources say General Electric is making a major pitch for a broad swath of business on the project, ranging from systems to propulsion.

“The overall aim of the C919 program is to supply the civil aircraft market in 8-10 years with a short- to medium-range single-aisle transport aircraft that is safe, comfortable, fuel-efficient, environmentally friendly and competitive,” says Comac. “The aircraft will first be positioned in the market for Chinese domestic sales while at the same time considering the international market.”

That strategy to make sales at home first, also adopted for the ARJ21, represents an acknowledgement of Comac’s great challenge in building a brand that airlines in major markets will trust.
The project has whipped up a great deal of patriotic news coverage in China, and the Western general media is largely taking for granted the idea that the country’s industry can move into the jetliner market as easily as it moved into cameras and tee-shirts.
While Western aerospace executives are not dismissing China’s determination to compete in the market, they expect that Comac will have to rely at first on local airlines buying the C919 under government orders.

Airbus also received such government support at first. However, while European governments could press their airlines to buy a few dozen A300s, that was hardly enough to sustain a viable production run. Forty years later, Chinese carriers need narrowbodies in the hundreds.
The ARJ21, could turn out to be an icebreaker for the C919. If the regional jet is a reliable and efficient product, and especially if it performs to the satisfaction of Western airlines by the middle of next decade, then Comac might yet find Western customers willing to reach for its advanced technology.

The C919 development budget is 30 billion yuan ($4.4 billion), but state media say that China will spend 200 billion yuan on the project. The difference between the two figures has not been explained.


With Guy Norris in Los Angeles.


Article intéressant.

Remise en perspective
1) du timing de l’avion qui sortir passer une demi-décennie avant les remplaçants des A320 et B737
2) des motorisations envisagées… LeapX (pb de timing il semble) et GTF (pb de plage de poussée)
3) de la comparaison avec Airbus il y a 40 ans… avec la différence principale que les mono-couloirs, les Cie chinoises en absorbent par centaines, comparé à la petite dizaine d’A300 placés initialement en Europe…

Bonne lecture


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art_way
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par art_way le Mer 23 Sep 2009 - 14:09

Le premier avion gros-porteur chinois vise 90 commandes pour commencer :

Le constructeur aéronautique chinois COMAC espère réunir au premier
semestre 2010 jusqu'à 90 commandes pour son C919, le futur avion
gros-porteur chinois livrable en 2016, a affirmé mercredi le Beijing
Morning Post.La Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (Comac)
est en discussions avec des clients potentiels y compris à l'étranger,
a ajouté le quotidien citant Chen Jin, directeur marketing de la
compagnie.Chen Jin a indiqué "personnellement" espérer que le
C919, premier avion chinois de cette taille, recevrait environ 90
commandes lors de ses premières offres, a précisé le Beijing Morning
post."Nous limiterons le nombre de premières commandes car en
général les premiers clients peuvent obtenir un prix réduit et d'autres
conditions favorables", a-t-il ajouté.Comac, filiale du groupe
public China Aviation Industry Corp (Avic) fondée en mai dernier,
devrait décider d'ici à la fin de l'année du fournisseur des moteurs de
son futur monocouloir.Parmi les entreprises étrangères sur les
rangs, figure notamment CFM, une coentreprise de l'américain General
Electric et du français Snecma (groupe Safran), principal fournisseur
des moteurs d'avions moyen-courriers, selon le journal.Les
premiers modèles devront encore faire appel à des moteurs étrangers
mais les suivants devraient être dotés d'une technologie chinoise,
avait récemment déclaré un responsable d'AVIC Commercial Aircraft
Engine, détenue à 40% par AVIC.Le C919, qui doit être prêt en
2014 et livrable à partir de 2016, sera un court à moyen-courrier qui
offrira, selon les versions, entre 168 et 190 places.Il
ambitionne de rivaliser avec les appareils actuels d'Airbus et Boeing
de taille équivalente, ses concepteurs vantant sa technologie
supérieure."Le jumbo jet C919 est plus avancé que les appareils en service actuels",
a affirmé Chen Jin cité par le China Daily.Notamment,
"il consommera de 12 à 15% de moins de carburant et aidera à la
réduction des émissions" de gaz à effet de serre, a-t-il ajouté selon
la même source.

http://www.boursorama.com/infos/actualites/detail_actu_marches.phtml?num=0c32cb81e697afd1c5c7dad4d1e6616e


_________________
art_way

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 5 Oct 2009 - 13:55

Bonjour !
PW positionne son GTF

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/10/05/333081/pratt-offers-geared-turbofan-for-chinas-c919-airliner.html



Pratt offers geared turbofan for China's C919 airliner
By Niall O’Keeffe

Pratt & Whitney (P&W) is offering its PW1000G PurePower geared turbofan (GTF) engine to power China's C919 jet.

The new narrowbody type is being developed by the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China (Comac), with service entry targeted for 2016.

"We are interested in the C919 and have initiated discussions with Comac," confirms a P&W spokesman. "We believe that the PW1000G offers a new airplane such as the C919 considerable market value."

The GTF engine is due to be ready for service in 2013.

In September, P&W's vice-president commercial engines for China, Thomas Nakano, indicated that the engine manufacturer had a preference to provide an International Aero Engines (IAE) powerplant to the C919 programme. However, subsequent negotiations appear to have revealed that Comac favours the GTF option.

"Comac has expressed an interest in the PurePower engine for its proposed new aircraft," says the P&W spokesman. "We see an excellent fit for the PW1000G's game-changing performance and environmental capabilities with the C919, and would be interested in pursuing."

IAE, a joint venture between P&W, Rolls-Royce, MTU and Japanese Aero Engines, remains "the preferred channel to market for the next generation of single-aisle aircraft", but P&W intends to compete with Rolls-Royce both on the C919 and on Russia's MS-21 narrowbody programme, he adds.

COMAC a marqué son intérêt pour le GTF, plutôt que sur une solution IAE comme il était prévu que la JV présente.

Le GTF se positionne en concurrence de la JV IAE sur le Comac, le MS21

Commentaire : quel avenir pour IAE entre le GTF et le mini-trent ?

Bonne journée


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voodoo
Whisky Quebec

Re: COMAC C919

Message par voodoo le Jeu 5 Nov 2009 - 10:18

Un moteur chinois pour le Comac 919 :
L'article du China.org.cn indique une mise en service du moteur chinois en 2016 pour remplacer les moteurs occidentaux sur le Comac 919.
Cette annonce est reprise par avionews (italien). Elle provient du salon CIIF qui devait avoir lieu à Shangaï et qui est repoussé au printemps 2010 pour cause de grippe H1N1.
Avez-vous d'autres infos ?

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Jeu 5 Nov 2009 - 10:42

Bonjour Voodoo,
On a ouvert un fil dédié dans la section motorisation turbofan

ICI

http://avia.superforum.fr/turbofans-f9/avic-commercial-aircraft-engines-sf-a-t841.htm#12898

Wink

Bonne journée


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Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Jeu 19 Nov 2009 - 9:47

Un petit mot pour ceux qui arrivent ici en suivant le lien de Wood Tv

Hello folks !
Thanks for coming here !
Enjoy !
Feel free to register and post some comments or news.

I may point out to another page on the C919 engine right here

http://avia.superforum.fr/turbofans-f9/avic-commercial-aircraft-engines-sf-a-t841.htm#12898

Sources are often english language
So that may help, even if comments are in French

Thank you


_________________
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jullienaline
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par jullienaline le Jeu 19 Nov 2009 - 23:57

Bonsoir à tous,

Le lieu de fabrication est choisi, ce sera Shanghai. On peut noter que l'usine sera dimensionnée pour fabriquer 20 appareils par an.
Ce n'est pas beaucoup au regard des chiffres de production d'Airbus et Boeing.

Chine: La chaîne d'assemblage final des avions C919 sera à Shanghai
Le groupe aéronautique Commercial Aircraft Corp of China Ltd. (COMAC) a annoncé que la chaîne d'assemblage final de ses avions C919 serait implantée dans le nouveau district de Pudong à Shanghai, indique le quotidien anglophone China Daily.

La construction de cette chaîne commencera fin 2009. En 2016, elle devrait permettre de produire, chaque année, 20 exemplaires du C919 entièrement conçu en Chine et 50 ARJ-21, a précisé l'entreprise.

La COMAC dont le siège est à Shanghai a été créée en mai 2008 avec un capital enregistré de 19 milliards de yuans dans le but de dépasser Boeing et Airbus sur le marché domestique.

La Chine est devenue un des marchés aéronautiques qui se développent le plus rapidement dans le monde. Selon l'Administration générale de l'Aviation civile, le trafic aérien de passagers a atteint 191,9 millions pendant les dix premiers mois de l'année, en hausse de 19,8% en base annuelle
http://french.peopledaily.com.cn/Economie/6817885.html

Amicalement


_________________
Jullienaline

jullienaline
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par jullienaline le Mer 9 Déc 2009 - 14:28

Bonjour à tous,

Un doublon volontaire car l'article éclaire sur les objectifs que cherche à atteindre COMAC en terme de part de fabrication d'origine chinoise.

Major engine manufacturers in discussion with AVIC - Suppliers Share Wrap

...

75-80% of the components in the C919 will reportedly be sourced from Western companies or produced in partnership with Western firms. COMAC reportedly intends to reduce this to approximately 50% as the programme matures.
The engine for the aircraft will be a major part of this. AVIC has made it clear that it wants to develop an indigenous engine for the C919, but COMAC has conceded that Western engines will initially power the aircraft. Shanghai-based AVIC Commercial Aircraft Engines (ACAE) plans to have a powerplant, the SF-A, running by 2016. But certification could take up to a year, or perhaps longer.
Given the current development timeframe for the C919 (test flight in 2014 and commercial service by 2106), and the fact that China has had major problems getting a reliable civil jet engine into production, it is no surprise that COMAC and AVIC are turning to the West to get an advanced engine for the C919 ready in time for its launch.
COMAC’s new ARJ21-700 regional jet, which is currently undergoing flight testing, is powered by GE engines (also used on Bombardier and Embraer regional jets).
...
http://www.centreforaviation.com/news/share-market/2009/11/23/major-engine-manufacturers-in-discussion-with-avic---suppliers-share-wrap/page1


_________________
Jullienaline

jullienaline
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par jullienaline le Jeu 10 Déc 2009 - 19:11

Bonsoir à tous,

Des fuites laisssent à penser que le C919 serait motorisé par le CFM International LEAP-X. En atendant, bien sur, que le SF-A prenne la relève.
Est-ce la volonté d'avoir la possibilité de s'en inspirer, voir de le copier ?

COMAC chooses LEAP-X, Russians pick GTF

China’s COMAC selected the CFM International LEAP-X engine to power its new challenge to Airbus and Boeing, the C919 150-200 seat jet, two sources tell us.
...
http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/comac-chooses-leap-x-russians-pick-gtf/#more-2460

Amicalement


_________________
Jullienaline

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Dim 13 Déc 2009 - 22:49

Bonsoir

Ici

quelques nouvelles de la compétition moteur pour cet avion

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/archives/187988.asp




Asked about media reports that China's Comac has chosen the LEAP-X engine to power its C919 150- to 200-seat jet, Saia did not acknowledge defeat.

"Comac has not made a formal announcement, so we're still very active there," he said, adding: "While every campaign is important, the Chinese market is important, so it's not just winning the first (contest). It's creating a relationship and presence and being there for multiple applications."



Gros enjeux identifiés donc...
PW ne lâchera pas l'affaire...

Bonne soirée


_________________
@avia.poncho

art_way
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par art_way le Jeu 17 Déc 2009 - 8:31

Et voilà...


Pékin choisit Safran-GE pour motoriser son avion - Presse :

PARIS, 17 décembre (Reuters) - La Chine vient de sélectionner la
coentreprise franco-américaine de Safran et General Electric < GENERAL ELECTRIC CO > pour fournir les moteurs du futur concurrent chinois de l'Airbus 320 < EADS > et du Boeing 737 < BOEING CO >, écrivent jeudi Les Echos et le Figaro. L'accord devrait, selon le quotidien, être officialisé lundi, lors de
la visite en Chine du Premier ministre, François Fillon, en compagnie
du patron de Safran, Jean-Paul Herteman, ajoutent les deux quotidiens,
en indiquant que Safran s'est refusé à commenter l'information. Le moteur sélectionné, le "Leap X" de CFM International encore en cours
de développement chez Snecma et GE, va ainsi équiper le futur avion
moyen-courrier chinois C919, développé par la société chinoise Comac,
qui viendra concurrencer l'A320 et le B737 aux alentours de 2016. "D'autres motoristes, comme Pratt & Whitney et Rolls-Royce < ROLLS-ROYCE >, pourraient également être sélectionnés ultérieurement pour le C919", selon Les Echos. "Cette première sélection n'en constitue pas moins un succès majeur
pour Safran et GE et une source de revenus potentiels considérables sur
les vingt prochaines années." Selon le Figaro, Safran est
également candidat pour fournir des équipements tels que des systèmes
de freinage et des trains d'atterrissage.
http://www.boursorama.com/infos/actualites/detail_actu_societes.phtml?num=bc97abc320250588d6dbd0f53670072d


_________________
art_way

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Sam 19 Déc 2009 - 22:18

Bonsoir à tous

Si l'on revient sur les calendriers connus à ce jour :

1) COMAC C919 mis en ligne 2016, donc premier vol vers 2014
2) SF-A : demonstrateur complet 2016 pour débuter la certification (2020 si on prend 4 ans comme pour le LEAP-X ?)
3) LEAP-X : démonstrateur complet 2012, certification 2016...

Il me semble que le certification des moteurs est nécessaire avant le premier vol non ?

Le planning va devoir être accélerer de presque 2ans si celui du COMAC C919 reste inchangé.

A titre d'exemple pour le GenX2B


GEnx-1B Engine Receives FAA CertificationThe GEnx-1B engine for the Boeing 787 Dreamliner has received airworthiness engine certification from the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration. The FAR (Federal Aviation Regulation) 33 certification follows a two-year ground- and flight-test program that involved eight engines and two flight-test programs on GE's 747 flying test bed. During its development and certification program, the GEnx ran 4,800 cycles and more than 3,600 hours. "The ground- and flight-tests validated that the GEnx-1B engine will have the lowest fuel consumption and be the most environmentally responsible solution for Boeing 787 operators," said Tom Brisken, general manager of the GEnx program.

Donc campagne de certification pour 2012 ?

Quelqu'un a t'il des infos ?

Bonne soirée


_________________
@avia.poncho

jullienaline
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par jullienaline le Lun 21 Déc 2009 - 9:43

Bonjour à tous,
Bonjour Poncho,

Vous avez raison, le planning semble dur à tenir mais cela n'a pas l'air d'inquiéter le PDG de SAFRAN, Jean-Paul Herteman. Il déclare :
"Il a fallu cerner les technologies qui allaient être prêtes pour une certification en 2014 et vérifier que cet ensemble technologique permettrait de satisfaire aux besoins de Comac, cela a été réalisé."

Au sujet des possibles fuites technologiques, Jean-Paul Herteman est la aussi optimiste. Les pièces sensibles ne seront pas fabriquées en Chine, où sera mis en place une usine d'assemblage.

Safran se renforce en Chine

PARIS/PEKIN (Reuters) - Safran et son partenaire américain historique General Electric ont été sélectionnés lundi pour fournir l'ensemble propulsif du futur avion C919 chinois, un succès qui permet aux deux industriels de prendre pied durablement sur un marché stratégique.
Le président du directoire du spécialiste de l'aéronautique, de la défense et de la sécurité, Jean-Paul Herteman, a déclaré devant la presse que cette signature permettrait d'apporter plus de 15 milliards de dollars de chiffre d'affaires à son groupe sur trois décennies.
Cette prévision de revenus prend en compte la vente d'équipements neufs, moteurs, nacelle et inverseurs, ainsi que les services de maintenance associés à compter de la mise en service de l'avion.
"Nos amis chinois estiment qu'ils peuvent faire 2.000 avions. Nous, chaque fois qu'ils font un avion, on fournit", a-t-il dit à Pékin où il accompagne le Premier ministre français François Fillon.
"La première monte est de l'ordre de cinq milliards (de dollars, ndlr, soit 3,48 milliards d'euros). Ensuite, avec les services, ça peut faire trois fois plus, même plus que ça, mais sur trente ans", a-t-il ajouté.
Elément majeur de la stratégie aéronautique déployée par Pékin dans le domaine aéronautique, le C919 se présente comme le futur avion moderne "made in China". Monocouloir concurrent des A320 du constructeur européen Airbus et des B737 de l'américain Boeing, son ambition est de servir le marché intérieur puis l'exportation.
Capable de transporter entre 150 et 200 passagers, son premier vol est prévu dès 2014 pour une entrée en service en 2016.
CFM International, la coentreprise moteurs de Safran et GE, mettra à disposition de la Commercial Aviation Corporation of China (Comac), le constructeur en charge du programme C919, une première version de son réacteur de nouvelle génération, le Leap X 1C, actuellement en cours de développement. Nexcelle, autre coentreprise entre les deux groupes, livrera la nacelle et les inverseurs de poussée.
Le Leap X devrait permettre en théorie un gain de consommation d'environ 16% par rapport aux moteurs disponibles sur le marché. Une usine d'assemblage final de moteurs (Final Assembly Line) aux couleurs de CFM devrait être construite en Chine, probablement dans la région de Shanghai, pour servir la Comac et son partenaire Avic.
Marc Ventre, directeur général adjoint en charge de la branche propulsion aéronautique et spatiale de Safran, a par ailleurs indiqué à Reuters que CFM était "la seule source occidentale" retenue pour l'ensemble propulsif de l'appareil.
"MECANIQUE"
Interrogé sur d'éventuels transferts de technologies sensibles, le dirigeant a répondu que l'accord n'en prévoyait aucun.
"La chaîne d'assemblage finale ne représente qu'une opération 'mécanique'. Tous les modules majeurs (qui comprennent des matériaux composite à très haute valeur ajoutée, ndlr) viendront de France et des Etats-Unis", a-t-il dit.
Selon lui, la principale difficulté pour Safran et GE a résidé dans les délais imposés par leur client chinois: "Il a fallu cerner les technologies qui allaient être prêtes pour une certification en 2014 et vérifier que cet ensemble technologique permettrait de satisfaire aux besoins de Comac, cela a été réalisé."
Safran et ses concurrents ont également répondu à des appels d'offres de la Comac portant sur d'autres lots du C919 comme ceux du train d'atterrissage et du câblage.
PRESSION
Le marché global des avions court-moyen courrier dans les 20 ans à venir est estimé par plusieurs experts à 20.000 unités. Sur ce total, les besoins des compagnies aériennes chinoises pourraient totaliser 2.000 à 2.500 avions. La Comac vise pour sa part la production de 2.000 appareils monocouloirs C919.
Le marché remporté par Safran et GE place Airbus et Boeing sous pression.
Face à des compagnies devenues plus exigeantes, à la fois sur le plan économique et environnemental, les deux constructeurs devront d'abord accélérer la remotorisation de leurs monocouloirs et décider plus rapidement de la date à laquelle les successeurs de l'A320 et du B737, deux familles d'appareils lancées il y a plus de deux décennies, viendront affronter l'avion chinois.
http://fr.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idFRPAE5BK01A20091221?sp=true


Amicalement


_________________
Jullienaline

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 21 Déc 2009 - 19:27

Merci Jullienaline

Sur deux futurs monocouloirs,1 concours pour chaque, et de fait en première monte une exclusivité...

Bien pour CFM, bien aussi par ailleurs pour PW

Peut-on espérer une seconde monte plus ouverte?

Bonne soirée


_________________
@avia.poncho

Poncho (Admin)
Whisky Charlie

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Poncho (Admin) le Lun 21 Déc 2009 - 20:31

Rebonsoir

J'en profite pour apporter ces compléments


CFM to build LEAP-X engine in China after C919 deal
By David Kaminski-Morrow

CFM International is looking to establish a Chinese final assembly line for engines, after formally confirming selection of its LEAP-X powerplant as the sole Western engine for the Comac C919 aircraft.

The agreement covers supply of a variant of the engine, designated the LEAP-X1C, with provision of the nacelle and thrust-reverser by the Nexcelle joint venture.

China's AVIC Commercial Aircraft Engine Company has also signed a memorandum of understanding with CFM for an assembly line and engine-test facility.

CFM says that the two sides have set up a team to "evaluate the scope and feasibility" of the plan, and to develop a legal structure for the joint venture.

The C919 is a twin-engined, 150-seat single-aisle aircraft intended to enter service in 2016.

Comac chairman Zhang Qingwei states: "The leading-edge technology incorporated in the engine, coupled with all of the benefits of a completely-integrated propulsion system, will enable us to build a very competitive aircraft for the global market."

CFM describes the agreement as the "next logical step" in its long-running partnership with the Chinese aviation industry.


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/12/21/336431/cfm-to-build-leap-x-engine-in-china-after-c919-deal.html

Version baptisée Leap1-X

Qui pourrait traduire précisemment "with provision of the nacelle and thrust-reverser by the Nexcelle joint venture" ? Est ce nacelle et inverseurs de poussée fournis par Nexcelle JV ?

La forme du partenariat moteur est une JV

En plus de l'assemblage des moteurs, il y aura aussi une chaine de test.

COMAC insiste sur le haut niveau d'intégration proposé

Bonne soirée


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Contenu sponsorisé

Re: COMAC C919

Message par Contenu sponsorisé Aujourd'hui à 12:34


    La date/heure actuelle est Sam 3 Déc 2016 - 12:34