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Skylander
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24 participants

    Boeing 787 (partie 1)


    jullienaline
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par jullienaline Dim 17 Oct 2010 - 14:54

    Ouaip, la 5 me va bien aussi.

    Et cela montre que les moteurs de série ne sont pas près d'arriver.
    Donc une protection de l'équilibre contre les bourrasques hivernales de ce coin des States est plausible.
    Une solution qui parait plus simple serait de les accrocher à la piste comme les appareils sur les porte-avions.

    Mais je me demandais si le calcul de l'aile et donc son assemblage implique que l'aile ne supporte pas de rester longtemps sans la masse des moteurs.
    Cette question m'est venue au regard de la grande flexion que l'aile adopte pendant certaines phases du vol.
    Cette aile semble d'une conception (d'une philiosophie ?) un peu différente des appareils précédents. Elle plie bien plus facilement et elle est prévue ainsi.

    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 K64962-08_FA256198_med

    N'est-ce qu'une impression ?
    Qu'en pensez-vous ?

    Amicalement

    Paul
    Whisky Quebec


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Paul Dim 17 Oct 2010 - 17:10

    Bonjour,

    Ce n'est pas seulement pour protéger des bourasques, ces contre-poids sont également utilisez sur la FAL par tous les constructeurs. J'en ai vu chez Bombardier, chez Embraer et chez Boeing. Airbus doit également en utiliser. Parfois il y des dizaines de personnes qui s'accumule pour travailler dans l'avion, parfois tous au même endroit, il ne faudrait pas que l'avion fasse un "tail strike" sur la ligne d'assemblage.

    Pour ce qui de supporter le poids du moteur sans bouger, pas de problèmes, il y a des milliers d'avions qui supporte le poids de leur moteur pendant des mois et des années dans le désert. L'appareil doit être certifié pour supporter le poids de ses moteurs même s'il ne vole pas.

    J'essaie de vous trouver quelques images de chez Bombardier et Embraer.

    Paul
    Whisky Quebec


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Paul Dim 17 Oct 2010 - 17:27

    Bonjour,

    Regardez cette photo d'un KC-135 en storage. Les moteurs seront enlevé et le poids de la perche de ravitaillement affecte le centre de gravité de l'appareil. Ils doivent ajouter un support à l'arrière.

    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 1542018
    jullienaline
    jullienaline
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par jullienaline Dim 17 Oct 2010 - 18:16

    Merci Paul,

    C'est vrai, mais pour moi la question reste entière.
    Pourquoi choisir de suspendre des masses à chaque pylone moteur alors qu'un simple support sous la queue suffit ? Je trouve cette solution bien compliquée si c'est simplement pour empécher l'avion de basculer sur sa queue.

    Amicalement


    _________________
    Jullienaline
    aeroduO5
    aeroduO5
    Whisky Quebec


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par aeroduO5 Dim 17 Oct 2010 - 18:35

    Pour moi ça évite de toucher à la peinture de la queue et donc d'avoir la moindre petite égratignure.
    Et puis c'est pas compliqué, on prend une caisse, on met le poids qu'il faut et on la pend à un crochet.
    Sinon il faut faire un support spécial, l'ancrer dans la terre et bien le positionner. De plus il vaut mieux ne pas trop toucher à la queue.

    Coluche disait déjà que c'était la faiblesse des Boeings. cheers Laughing
    Paul
    Paul
    Whisky Quebec


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Paul Dim 17 Oct 2010 - 19:29

    Bonjour,

    et ces support permettre de bouger l'avion sans les enlever
    Paul
    Paul
    Whisky Quebec


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Paul Dim 17 Oct 2010 - 19:30

    Bonjour,

    et ces supports permettent de bouger l'avion sans les enlever
    Paul
    Paul
    Whisky Quebec


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Paul Lun 18 Oct 2010 - 4:55

    Bonjour,

    J'ai sorti cette photo de ma collection perso. C'est un Global 5000 en préparation pour la finition intérieure. J'ai encerclé le "nose weight" de 2500 lb qui sert à contre-balancer le poids des moteurs pour éviter que le nez remonte s'il y a trop de poids à l'arrière de l'appareil. Il est fixer au fuselage n'a pas besoin d'être enlever pour bouger l'avion. Il y a également des poids pour remplacer les moteurs lorsque ceux-ci ne sont enlevés (désolé pas d'image). Ce type de contre-poids est largement utilisés sur les appareils avec moteurs à l'arrière (CRJ, ERJ, DC-9, MD-80, 727, etc).

    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Xrs


    Dernière édition par Paul le Lun 18 Oct 2010 - 12:33, édité 1 fois
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Lun 18 Oct 2010 - 9:05

    Super !
    Merci paul
    La balance des blancs était à l'ouest Wink


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    jullienaline
    jullienaline
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par jullienaline Lun 18 Oct 2010 - 13:13

    Bonjour à tous,

    Oui, merci Paul.

    Amicalement


    _________________
    Jullienaline
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mer 20 Oct 2010 - 13:35

    Bonjour à tous

    Reprise des vols pour :
    ZA006 (GenX #2)
    Les ZA001 à 4 volent également cette semaine


    _________________
    @avia.poncho
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Mer 20 Oct 2010 - 14:13

    Merci Poncho !
    Boeing voit le bout du tunnel, côté essais ... je n'attends plus de surprises majeures !
    Reste quand même à régler les PB qui ont émergé, ce n'est pas fini, les tweakings, et autre réglages software etc !
    Et je serai content quand je verrai des moteurs se monter sur les avions fabriqués en attente sur les parking de Paine Field ... qq dizaines de trous à boucher quand même ! Hou Hou RR, GE Twisted Evil Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 706191 Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 887739
    Est ce encore beaucoup demander today, juste des moteurs qui ne consomment pas trop, marchent et ne sautent pas, des moteurs aux specs quoi ! Et avec les 3 ans de retard qui se profilent, en plus Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 812921 ??

    JPRS
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Jeu 21 Oct 2010 - 10:48

    Bonjour !

    Jim Albaught pense construire la queue (Hor Stab) du 787-9 aux USA, Alenia perdrait ce marché !
    C'est en évaluation, mais visiblement, ils ont suffisamment souffert avec les queues du 787-8, et ils sont toujours dessus pour les rectifier !
    Donc, le 787-9 pourrait être un peu moins "Mondialisé" dans 2 ans !
    Par contre, ils sont très contents des ailes et de Mitsubishi !
    Boeing va lancer lesélements du 787-9 dans les mois à venir, et c'est l'heure des décisions pour ne pas se louper cette foi !
    Avis perso ... ils ne sont pas en avance, pour les gros éléments surtout, l'assemblage devant se faire début 2012 au plus tard !
    Bien qu'à priori il ne faille pas considérer de machines, ni d'autoclaves nouvelles pour l'instant ... sauf en cas de changement de fournisseur !

    --------------- Un long article du Seattle Times Extrait ----------------

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2013215262_boeing21.html

    Boeing considers building 787-9 horizontal tails in-house


    Boeing could bring in-house the building of the horizontal tails for the second model of the 787 Dreamliner, Commercial Airplanes Chief Executive Jim Albaugh said Wednesday in an interview after the company reported strong quarterly sales and profit.
    By Dominic Gates
    Seattle Times aerospace reporter

    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 2013215265 Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Zoom_photo


    Boeing could bring in-house the building of the horizontal tails for the second model of the 787 Dreamliner, Commercial Airplanes CEO Jim Albaugh said Wednesday.Existing Boeing fabrication sites, including a newly expanded research facility in Seattle and the Frederickson plant near Tacoma, are being considered for the work.

    Boeing is grappling with continued quality issues on the horizontal tails for the initial Dreamliner model, the 787-8, which are built in Italy by Alenia.

    A decision to build those in-house on the next version would be a step back from Boeing's far-reaching program of outsourcing major 787 sections to suppliers across the globe."We're taking a very hard look at where the 787-9 tails should be built," Albaugh said in an interview after Boeing reported strong quarterly sales and profits.

    He added that no decision has been made yet. "We've got to look at it in concert with how Alenia does and the contract we have in place with them."

    In June, Boeing grounded its test fleet and ordered a tail inspection for all the completed airplanes because of poor-quality workmanship by Italian mechanics.

    The tails of the six flight-test planes were fixed and the jets resumed flying, but engineers found further quality issues on the other completed airplanes parked at Paine Field and inside the factory.

    Now, even as tail work continues on the planes inside the factory, the tails of the flight-test airplanes are being further modified, said Dreamliner program spokeswoman Lori Gunter."We are working our way through it," said Gunter. "We have completed a couple of them."Boeing executives and engineers are in Italy trying to sort out the problems.

    Possible sitesMeanwhile, Boeing is planning ahead.

    Other Boeing sites where it could build the horizontal tails include Salt Lake City and Winnipeg, Canada

    -----------

    JPRS
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Ven 22 Oct 2010 - 10:05

    Ce n'est pas nouveau
    Mais c'est étonnant que ça ressorte

    Le coup du Surge...

    http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/avd/2010/09/16/02.xml&headline=Boeing 787 Suffers Engine Surge During Flight Tests; Deliveries May Slip Again&channel=comm



    Boeing and Rolls-Royce are investigating the causes of a Trent 1000 engine surge that has grounded flight tests of the first Boeing 787 at Roswell, N.M.

    Boeing also is assessing whether the latest engine incident may cause further slips in the hard-pressed 787 delivery schedule. The failure occurred on Sept. 10 during ground tests of the first 787, ZA001, which was at Roswell for Block 1 rejected takeoff work, plus brake demonstration certification and stability and control tests. The aircraft, which has been based at Edwards AFB, Calif., for most of August for runway performance work, was on its second visit to Roswell, having earlier been there for wet runway testing.

    Boeing says ZA001 “experienced an engine surge during testing on Friday afternoon. The event occurred prior to takeoff and the crew completed the appropriate maneuvers. Back-up systems performed as designed, and the crew and the aircraft were safe throughout the event.”

    The manufacturer adds that it is working with Rolls-Royce to “investigate the event and understand the root cause.” However it says early results, based on initial input from the “team on the ground in Roswell, indicate that this engine failure is not related to the test event in Derby.”

    This earlier event occurred on Aug. 2 on a Package A initial delivery configuration engine running on Rolls-Royce’s Bed 58 indoor test site in Derby in the U.K. The engine suffered an uncontained, intermediate pressure, turbine-related failure due to what Rolls describes as tests in an “inappropriate operating regime.” The disruption caused by the engine problem, added to ongoing inspection issues with the horizontal stabilizer, forced Boeing to push back first 787 deliveries to launch customer All Nippon Airways to February 2011, rather than the end of this year, as originally planned.

    Of the latest incident, Boeing says, “It’s too early to determine if there will be any impact to schedule. We need to let the team do the necessary work to understand what happened and what caused it.” It adds, however, that “this appears to be an isolated incident, though a full study will be made to ensure thorough understanding.”

    Boeing says that a flight test engine is available and that “the team is installing it in New Mexico and will resume testing soon.” Initial engine check-out flight tests are expected to take place as early as Sept. 17. If the engine tests are satisfactory, the ZA001 test team expects to resume brake and stability and control tests the following day.



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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Lun 25 Oct 2010 - 22:50

    Bonjour à tous

    ZA005 et ZA006 les deux GenX sont en vol
    Il doit rester de l'ordre de 280h, avec ZA006 qui devrait faire de vols longs dans le cadre de la certification ETOPS...

    A suivre


    _________________
    @avia.poncho
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Mar 26 Oct 2010 - 2:03

    Bonsoir !

    Ben quand MCNerney parlait de ramener aux US la queue du 787_9 ce n'était pas sans raisons !
    3eme arrêt , pour 15 jours ?? des appros des grosses pièces de structure ... pour les 787, Boeing ne sait plus ou les mettre !
    Because les Italiens ne livrent pas les Stabs Horizontaux ... retards à Grottaglia, pour livrer des éléments conformes !

    Vu aussi, entre All Things et A.net, que qq pièces de structure ont été re-chargées sur les dreamlifters probablement pour les stocker ou avancer des finitions ailleurs ....
    Définitivement, les stabs ne sont pas faciles à fabriquer ! Avis gratuit à Airbus !

    ----------- Du Seattle Times, D Gates , Extrait ---------------------

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2013256677_boeing26.html

    Boeing calls two-week stop to 787 section deliveries to Everett


    Boeing is stopping deliveries to Everett of the large pieces of the 787 Dreamliner for the third time this year, this time because Alenia of Italy cannot complete the horizontal tails on time.
    By Dominic Gates
    Seattle Times aerospace reporter

    Related
    For the third time this year, Boeing is stopping deliveries to Everett of the large pieces of the 787 Dreamliner, this time because Alenia of Italy cannot deliver the horizontal tails on time.The suppliers of the other major airplane sections are also having to hold their pieces of the jet while Alenia catches up.The pause in shipments to the final assembly line will vary from one 787 partner to another but will average about two weeks, said Boeing spokeswoman Lori Gunter.Gunter said the glitch will not affect the timing of the first 787 delivery to launch customer All Nippon Airways, still set for mid-February.Alenia has discovered manufacturing errors that have left significant gaps between structural pieces of the horizontal tails, also known as horizontal stabilizers. Mechanics now have to laboriously fill those gaps with small pieces of composite material called "shims.""We have a lot of people over there (in Foggia, Italy) helping them to do that," said Gunter."Rather than have stuff ship and just sit here, we are holding up other suppliers. But not because they cannot perform," she said. "It's because (final assembly mechanics) have to put things in place in order. Without the horizontal stabilizer, they can't do the downstream work."
    JPRS
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mar 26 Oct 2010 - 9:33

    Merci Beochien

    C'est un peu génant mais est-ce bien grave ?
    A part pour Alenia qui va perdre la queue je pense...


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    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Mar 26 Oct 2010 - 10:00

    Pas gênant pour l'EIS des qq premiers !
    Mais après, il faut quand même livrer tous les mois ... tous les ans ... le ramp up, ben je ne voudrais pas être employé au planning bounce scratch !
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Mar 26 Oct 2010 - 10:06

    C'est sûr...
    Mais là ça les arrange, y a plus de place pour les parkings
    A priori c'est plus facile de faire des avions sans moteurs que sans queue Wink


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    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Ven 29 Oct 2010 - 9:43

    Bonjour à tous

    Les pb de stab horizontal sont plus lourds de conséquence que l'arrêt de 15 jours de la chaine d'appro
    La ligne n'a pas pas bougé depuis debut octobre et ne devrait pas bouger avant le fin de ce mois.
    Les pb constatés sur les appareils d'essais se sont aggravés sur les appareils de série (si je lis bien ; il y a 2 à 5 cm de jeu ?)
    Le stab 30 devrait arriver d'Alenia sans reprise à faire

    Le lien

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2010/10/a-closer-look-inside-the-787-d.html


    Boeing's two week hold in 787 shipments has overshadowed an even longer period of non-movement in the final assembly line, as the company works to address lingering horizontal stabilizers issues.

    Driving the latest hold, the third this year, is a shifted delivery schedule of the Alenia Aeronautica-built 787 horizontal stabilizer and the need to deliver a shipset free of workmanship issues, first disclosed in June, that would need time consuming rework at Boeing's Everett, Washington final assembly facility, says Boeing.

    Yet, as Boeing disclosed the two two-week hold in delivery, structural sections had already been accumulating in the back of the factory as the assembly line has not advanced since early October for Airplane 28, and the line is not set to pulse again until early November and could stretch to the middle of the month, according to those working on the program.

    As recently as August at the time of the last delay announcement, Boeing Commercial Airplanes CEO Jim Albaugh expressed confidence in the recovery plan, saying "horizontal stabilizer 27 and on we're not too worried about, we've got that one pretty well overwhelmed."

    Though horizontal stabilizers 28 and 29 will still require inspection and potentially significant rework. Boeing now expects the first "clean" stabilizer free of workmanship issues to be delivered from Italy starting with Airplane 30.


    However, even as Boeing eliminates the headache of having to rework stabilizers 30 and beyond in Everett, the airframer's machinists and engineers must inspect, diagnose and complete rework on the 23 production aircraft already assembled before each one can be handed over to a customer.


    The US airframer has found itself in a complicated dance of horizontal stabilizers inside the factory as they are reworked, while Boeing is making provisions to support the rework required to fix the Alenia workmanship issues on the already assembled airframes.


    "Detailed inspections [of the horizontal stabilizers] are continuing at the same time we are building," says Boeing.

    The four-position 787 line is stocked with Airplanes 25 (Air India), 26 (Air India), 27 (JAL) and 28 (Air India) at assembly positions, while a near-complete complement of parts for Airplane 29 waits in pieces at the rear of the factory along with the wings for Airplane 30. Notably missing from both planes are the horizontal stabilizers for Airplanes 29 and 30, two shipsets behind.

    Another program source expects the horizontal stabilizer for Airplane 29 to arrive in the coming days, with number 30 to arrive in Everett once the delivery hold is lifted early next month. The remaining parts for Airplane 30, the forward and aft fuselage, are being stored in a Dreamlifter away from the elements.

    Airplanes 25, 27 and 28 all have horizontal stabilizers, though each is heavily stripped down while being reworked. Airplane 26 remains without a horizontal stabilizer as the line move trumped the installation, which occurred while it was being reworked.

    After Airplane 26 advanced to position two, Airplane 27 was fitted with the horizontal stabilizer intended for Airplane 26 after preliminary rework was complete, while the airplane was in position one inside the factory. The stabilizer originally meant for Airplane 27 is now installed on Airplane 28.

    The horizontal stabilizer for Airplane 29, when it arrives from Italy, is likely to be installed on Airplane 26 before it leaves the factory prior to loading of Airplane 30 into final body join.


    Boeing's first delivery hold, announced in late April, stretched into early June, with a second lasting a total of 28 days split between 10 manufacturing days preceding delivery of Airplane 26, and another covering 18 manufacturing days following the arrival of the wings of Airplane 28.

    Horizontal stabilizer 28 remains in the horizontal stabilizer integration (HSI) tool on the factory floor, and will likely be loaded on Airplane 29 once the line advances forward. Boeing will re-sync the horizontal stabilizers beginning again with Airplane 30 when deliveries resume again.

    The last time Boeing's line advanced was on October 3, and the shifting of the 787 line forward was initially scheduled for October 13, followed by another move on October 25, though neither took place opting to hold the line in place on both occasions. The company says the line won't move again until November 4 at the earliest, despite a complete shipset for Airplane 29, which now includes Airplane 28's stabilizer, in the factory.

    Though one source in program manufacturing indicates that another line hold could be instituted, pushing the next forward move, and the start of assembly of the 29th 787, to mid-November.

    As it anticipates the need to conduct rework on the existing production horizontal stabilizers out of the normal assembly sequence, Boeing has added a new laydown position in the rear of the factory to rework the stabilizers before moving to the HSI tool for integration.

    In that August interview, Albaugh added the company would be able to perform any required rework without removing the horizontal stabilizer, which remains true. However, with repairs involving invasive rework, crews may have to remove the tail cone and vertical tail plane of the aircraft to gain access the the stabilizer.

    Boeing has developed a new tool to rework the horizontal stabilizers that accommodates a holding slot for the KAL-ASD built Section 48 aft tail cone and vertical stabilizer and a work area to provide unfettered access to the horizontal stabilizer.

    For the production-airframe horizontal stabilizers, most of which have been installed, program sources say Boeing is now inspecting the shims, some found to have gaps as large as .1 to .2in, on 600 areas on the fixed leading and trailing edges of the horizontal stabilizer.

    Initially the inspection of the horizontal stabilizers on the six flight test aircraft encompassed a small area of two shims and 24 potentially over-torqued fasteners, though Boeing concedes that scope of the initial problem has grown since first discovery in late June necessitating additional inspections and modifications of the flight test aircraft.

    Boeing 787 vice president and general manager Scott Fancher said in June that the flight test aircraft rework would take between one and eight days depending on the amount of work required, however for the horizontal stabilizers on production airframes are expected to take significantly longer, say program sources


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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par art_way Ven 29 Oct 2010 - 10:02

    Merci Poncho,

    Ça sent un nouveau report de livraison pour ANA avec cette fois ci comme coupable Alenia.... Twisted Evil


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    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Ven 29 Oct 2010 - 10:08

    In fine, Boeing aura tjs des difficultés à se dédouaner du retard de ses partenaires...


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    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Ven 29 Oct 2010 - 12:23

    Oui Poncho, mais ces foutues queues, cela fait combien de temps qu'ils ont le nez dessus chez Boeing ?
    Et ... pas de contrôleurs en mission en Italie, avec tout ce qu'ils ont commandé aux Italiens ...
    Si ils avaient contrôlé le travail à Grottaglia , à temps, ils n'en seraient pas là non plus !

    Bon, ils vont finir par les arranger leurs Stabs , un jour ... cette année sûrement !
    Manquera plus qu'une quarantaine de moteurs ... je commencerai à croire aux livraisons 1 Trimestre quand je les verrai, ces moteurs !

    JPRS
    aubla
    aubla
    Whisky Quebec


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par aubla Sam 30 Oct 2010 - 12:42

    Bonjour à tous

    Si l'on en croit Airliners.net, le Boeing 787 devrait effectuer une visite en Europe en fin de semaine prochaine.
    Roissy CDG et Amsterdam Schipol seraient les escales prévues.

    Serait-ce une offensive commerciale sur AF/KLM ?
    à suivre donc

    le lien : http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4968570/

    Bonne journée à tous
    Cordialement
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Sam 30 Oct 2010 - 22:11

    Bonsoir !

    8 Dreamliners, 787-9, signés par Viet-Nam Airlines, en présence de Hillary Clinton !

    http://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/Vietnam-Airlines-buy-eight-afp-2084853428.html?x=0

    JPRS
    Poncho (Admin)
    Poncho (Admin)
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Poncho (Admin) Dim 31 Oct 2010 - 0:00

    Bonsoir Aubla,

    J'ai ça aussi

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2010/10/boeing-appears-set-to-woo-air.html


    Next week from November 4-6, Boeing will dispatch a 787 on a marketing trip through western Europe with stops in Paris and Amsterdam. Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf reported Friday that Schiphol Airport officials had confirmed that the twin jet was slated to visit the Netherlands on November 5.

    At stake is an order for up to 100 aircraft for delivery starting in 2014 to replace the carrier's older A340s and 747s. In May, KLM president Peter Hartman told Flightglobal the order had "stalled" because "the manufacturers are not willing to give us fixed dates and [aircraft] specifications."

    Boeing appears set to give Air France/KLM the certainty they are looking for with a 787 visit to each airline's home base.

    Program sources confirm that ZA006 ( N787ZA), the second of two General Electric GEnx-1B powered 787s, is slated to hit the road for the new jet's third European swing.

    Air France/KLM has always selected General Electric or SNECMA (or CFM) engines for its aircraft, putting the GEnx powered 787 at the top of the airline's interest list for replacement, though the carriers said they would likely opt for a mix of the two.

    With three years to go before A350's entry into service, negotiations between Airbus and GE to have second engine option along side the Rolls-Royce Trent XWB have largely disappeared from public view. In May 2009, GE said that once ZA005 and ZA006 entered flight test, the engine-maker believed it had an opportunity to "restructure discussions" with Airbus around adding a second engine to the program.

    GE had previously been comfortable with offering an engine for the A350-800 and -900, but was reluctant about developing a competing engine for the -1000, which is set to go head-to-head with the 777-300ER powered by the GE90-115B.

    Let's see if a trip to Airbus's backyard will push the engine back to the forefront.


    C'est le ZA006 à GenX qui vient visiter AF/KLM
    Il est fait un double lien :
    - commande AF/KLM
    - seconde motorisation A350 (qui pourrait être lancée avec l'hypothétique commande AF ?)
    A suivre


    _________________
    @avia.poncho
    aeroduO5
    aeroduO5
    Whisky Quebec


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par aeroduO5 Dim 31 Oct 2010 - 19:44

    Boeing aimerait impressionner AF/KLM avec son nouveau bébé, il ne s'y prendrait pas autrement.

    C'est une sorte de raid pour un seul client et 2 éléments nous le prouvent:
    -visite de CDG et de Schipol, les 2 hubs de la compagnie, sans autre escale signalée pour le moment.
    -choix du proto à moteurs GE, qui est le motoriste exclusif d' AF/KLM (à quelques exeptions près quie se font rares).

    Il est évident que B veut la plus grosse part du gâteau de la future commande et montrte les atouts dont il dispose.
    Beochien
    Beochien
    Whisky Charlie


    Boeing 787 (partie 1) - Page 32 Empty Re: Boeing 787 (partie 1)

    Message par Beochien Lun 1 Nov 2010 - 14:17

    Bonjour !

    Ce qui est intéressant, est le Timing, pour moi cela indique que la phase réflexion AF/KLM, se termine, et que lesdécisions approchent ..
    A part cela, ce qui peut impressionner AF ou KLM, c'est un avion et un moteur certifiés qui volent ensemble, et tiennent les specs !
    Pour les Specs, le 788, ce ne sera pas le cas avant qq temps, et le 789, est tout juste en phase de définition ..
    Donc, le succès d'un PR en promenant son avion en Europe ... Bof !
    Va falloir des prix et des slots pour convaincre, plus que des cartes postales !

    Mais quant à faire des test ETOPS, et des essais d'itinéraires, pourquoi ne pas se promener en Europe, ça fera au moins plaisir aux "Spotters" de ce côté Boeing à bien raison, dés que son 788 est capable de rentrer tout seul à la maison Very Happy !
    Airbus a fait et fera la même chose !

    ----------- Les Comment"s de Jon Ostrower, Flightblogger ------------------

    http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/

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